Hello,
We completed our city villa at the end of October and have moved in. Quite quickly, it became clear that in the ground floor the hot water takes a very long time to arrive in the kitchen and guest bathroom. According to the planning documents, it should not take more than 3 seconds for the hot water to come out. It was officially measured, and it takes 25 seconds and 3.7 liters (about 1 gallon) in the kitchen before hot water arrives. The cause is the missing looped circulation pipe. The plumber admits his mistake and has now asked us whether we want this defect fixed or prefer a financial compensation instead.
What needs to be done:
The pipe in the hallway must be exposed and about 1.5 meters (5 feet) newly installed through a wall toward the utility room. The tiles will have to be broken on parts of the utility room and hallway floors; the screed (concrete subfloor) will likely have to be removed in these areas as well. Then a new pipe will be laid so that the current overly long pipe will be integrated into the hot water circulation system on the upper floor. Afterwards, everything must be restored to its original state. We have some leftover tiles, which we would use, and then ask him to order a new batch (to avoid color differences...).
This does not sound simple or cheap to me. Instead, he also offers money. What do you think would be appropriate for this? He said he would calculate the extra consumption over 20 years. But what about the loss of value of the property? This is a defect, and we have to disclose it when selling (since we are aware of it…). It's not causing major problems; having hot water in the kitchen is nice, but thanks to induction cooking, it heats up quickly anyway 🙂 And in the guest bathroom, well, you can just run the tap for 30 seconds before visitors arrive, and then it works…
How much money do you think would be reasonable? And yes, I know it’s easy for an outsider to say “definitely have it fixed.”
We completed our city villa at the end of October and have moved in. Quite quickly, it became clear that in the ground floor the hot water takes a very long time to arrive in the kitchen and guest bathroom. According to the planning documents, it should not take more than 3 seconds for the hot water to come out. It was officially measured, and it takes 25 seconds and 3.7 liters (about 1 gallon) in the kitchen before hot water arrives. The cause is the missing looped circulation pipe. The plumber admits his mistake and has now asked us whether we want this defect fixed or prefer a financial compensation instead.
What needs to be done:
The pipe in the hallway must be exposed and about 1.5 meters (5 feet) newly installed through a wall toward the utility room. The tiles will have to be broken on parts of the utility room and hallway floors; the screed (concrete subfloor) will likely have to be removed in these areas as well. Then a new pipe will be laid so that the current overly long pipe will be integrated into the hot water circulation system on the upper floor. Afterwards, everything must be restored to its original state. We have some leftover tiles, which we would use, and then ask him to order a new batch (to avoid color differences...).
This does not sound simple or cheap to me. Instead, he also offers money. What do you think would be appropriate for this? He said he would calculate the extra consumption over 20 years. But what about the loss of value of the property? This is a defect, and we have to disclose it when selling (since we are aware of it…). It's not causing major problems; having hot water in the kitchen is nice, but thanks to induction cooking, it heats up quickly anyway 🙂 And in the guest bathroom, well, you can just run the tap for 30 seconds before visitors arrive, and then it works…
How much money do you think would be reasonable? And yes, I know it’s easy for an outsider to say “definitely have it fixed.”
wrobel schrieb:
Hello
In this case, I would have installed the domestic hot water heater along the shortest path, which would be about 7 m (23 feet) to the kitchen and 2 m (6.5 feet) to the WC. Without circulation.
It seems like someone didn’t want to make the three drillings required or lost track of the situation.
According to the planning office, the pipes should have been laid in a loop, as you already mentioned, considering the lengths. Unfortunately, it was carried out differently.You’ve already mentioned the sensible solution now. From the domestic water heater in the guest WC through the wall into the utility room. This is not really a problem. The approximately 4 m (13 feet) pipe to the kitchen sink then becomes a branch line, so no circulation. That works well.The question here is whether the pipe diameter under the guest WC is sufficient. After all, the hot water circulation is connected in series from above. We want to avoid the hot water supply collapsing if multiple fixtures are used simultaneously. From an effort standpoint, of course, this is the preferred option.
Hello
I don’t understand your question. The pipe diameter leading to the taps is not being changed.
To further reduce installation effort, it would also be possible to install a T-piece above the angle valve and then run a pipe through the wall to the storage tank.
Then you might barely have enough time for a coffee 😀
Olli
I don’t understand your question. The pipe diameter leading to the taps is not being changed.
To further reduce installation effort, it would also be possible to install a T-piece above the angle valve and then run a pipe through the wall to the storage tank.
Then you might barely have enough time for a coffee 😀
Olli
The pipe diameter does not change if the circulation line is connected in a way that the branch from the manifold under the stairs to the guest water heater is at the very end of the circuit. However, the pipe diameter might still be undersized overall because all the hot water outlets are then supplied through a single pipe (one circuit) instead of two separate circuits.
The circulation is actually the pipe network leading to the faucet (the first section up to the branch). If all faucets in the house are connected to one pipe (one circuit) and are opened at the same time, the flow rate will probably drop significantly somewhere—most likely at the last outlet in the circuit. In theory, you could have two circuits with one pump, but in practice, this almost never works because of different resistances, meaning that one circuit might not receive any flow at all. 🙂
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