ᐅ Which control system? Managing heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC) with an app
Created on: 25 Dec 2017 18:02
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Dark_Templar
Hello everyone,
I am about to start building and have the following systems planned. However, I am not sure how to best implement them.
Heating: Viessmann Vitodens 300-W
Ventilation: Zehnder Q450
Air conditioning: Daikin Emura (living room + child’s bedroom 1 + child’s bedroom 2)
Door communication: Open, target setup: video + preferably fingerprint
Home cinema (on the living floor): motorized screen + motorized curtain
I would like to control heating, ventilation, and air conditioning via apps. Each manufacturer offers a separate app for this, which would be acceptable to me.
On the living floor, I want to control 4 blinds, at least 4 lighting zones, the motorized screen, and the motorized curtain via a touch panel. Ideally, this panel would be the same one used for door communication. I want to control all other floors conventionally.
How would you organize this?
I am about to start building and have the following systems planned. However, I am not sure how to best implement them.
Heating: Viessmann Vitodens 300-W
Ventilation: Zehnder Q450
Air conditioning: Daikin Emura (living room + child’s bedroom 1 + child’s bedroom 2)
Door communication: Open, target setup: video + preferably fingerprint
Home cinema (on the living floor): motorized screen + motorized curtain
I would like to control heating, ventilation, and air conditioning via apps. Each manufacturer offers a separate app for this, which would be acceptable to me.
On the living floor, I want to control 4 blinds, at least 4 lighting zones, the motorized screen, and the motorized curtain via a touch panel. Ideally, this panel would be the same one used for door communication. I want to control all other floors conventionally.
How would you organize this?
Happy New Year everyone!
I don’t want to hijack the thread, but since the original poster also asked about lighting: how have you implemented your lighting setup?
I’m currently deciding between DMX and DALI, with a current preference for DALI due to the simpler wiring (5x 1.5 NYM cable versus “special” bus cable) and the main requirement to be able to dim or switch our exclusively LED lighting on and off. RGB(W) strips and bulbs are not our thing and therefore not a requirement. Since DMX originally comes from stage technology and offers advantages due to its higher bus speed for synchronous (color) light control of many fixtures at once, I wonder what else might support choosing DMX. By the way, the lighting will be entirely 24V with central drivers located in the technical room—as the electrician explained. How did you set yours up?
I don’t want to hijack the thread, but since the original poster also asked about lighting: how have you implemented your lighting setup?
I’m currently deciding between DMX and DALI, with a current preference for DALI due to the simpler wiring (5x 1.5 NYM cable versus “special” bus cable) and the main requirement to be able to dim or switch our exclusively LED lighting on and off. RGB(W) strips and bulbs are not our thing and therefore not a requirement. Since DMX originally comes from stage technology and offers advantages due to its higher bus speed for synchronous (color) light control of many fixtures at once, I wonder what else might support choosing DMX. By the way, the lighting will be entirely 24V with central drivers located in the technical room—as the electrician explained. How did you set yours up?
Tom1607 schrieb:
In the long term, everything will be integrated via IP. It started with telephony. Who still uses analog today?So, to be future-proof, you would then wire in a star topology and use a CAT-7 cable instead of the green cable for the KNX bus? Wouldn’t that be the conclusion from what was said? Although you could also use a green CAT-7 cable for nostalgic reasons [emoji6]
Lighting fully centralized with power supply and MDT LED controller. Wiring is always done with 5x2.5mm² (5x0.01 inch²), although we didn’t calculate that. In some cases, 5x1.5mm² (5x0.0023 inch²) would probably have been sufficient.
Where do you see the exact advantages of DALI? For me, only the price comes to mind, but I’m not sure if that is still current. Although the price is certainly a good argument. KNX, however, has recently improved significantly in terms of actuators.
Regards
Where do you see the exact advantages of DALI? For me, only the price comes to mind, but I’m not sure if that is still current. Although the price is certainly a good argument. KNX, however, has recently improved significantly in terms of actuators.
Regards
Hello!
Well, price is definitely a significant factor [emoji4] Aside from that, converting dimming values into a logarithmic dimming curve in the electronic ballast (EVG) is another point. Where do you see disadvantages of DALI compared to KNX actuators?
Did you pull each individual light point separately back to the distribution board? If so, that would be more effort compared to DALI. The latter is a bus system, meaning it’s more flexible when reassigning luminaires, with less material used (wiring from the distribution board to the room or floor, then open ring topology versus pulling each individual light point back to the distribution board). It depends on how often this “rewiring” occurs. What still doesn’t fully convince me about DALI is that “off” doesn’t mean powerless, but 0%, so a small residual current might still flow. I hope nothing buzzes when it’s off.
However, if there are no other advantages with KNX dimmers and “just” the price benefit matters, that alone would already be enough for me. Why spend more money than necessary for the same or only marginally “better” quality?
I’m still undecided and open to arguments [emoji4]
Well, price is definitely a significant factor [emoji4] Aside from that, converting dimming values into a logarithmic dimming curve in the electronic ballast (EVG) is another point. Where do you see disadvantages of DALI compared to KNX actuators?
Did you pull each individual light point separately back to the distribution board? If so, that would be more effort compared to DALI. The latter is a bus system, meaning it’s more flexible when reassigning luminaires, with less material used (wiring from the distribution board to the room or floor, then open ring topology versus pulling each individual light point back to the distribution board). It depends on how often this “rewiring” occurs. What still doesn’t fully convince me about DALI is that “off” doesn’t mean powerless, but 0%, so a small residual current might still flow. I hope nothing buzzes when it’s off.
However, if there are no other advantages with KNX dimmers and “just” the price benefit matters, that alone would already be enough for me. Why spend more money than necessary for the same or only marginally “better” quality?
I’m still undecided and open to arguments [emoji4]
Hello everyone,
First of all, I wish you all a healthy and successful 2018.
NO!!
KNX cable is certified for a test voltage of 4 kV and may be installed without special protection alongside and even in the same conduit as 230V cables (including in the distribution board!!). CAT cables must be installed separately from 230V cables and in a separate conduit. So if you use a bus cable, then use the green KNX cable!! (And this has nothing to do with the color, as KNX cables also come in purple.)
I would still run CAT cables in parallel. There are now several devices that do KNX over IP (Gira G1 as an example), and you can of course install them in the same conduit as the KNX cable. Just not together with 230V.
First of all, I wish you all a healthy and successful 2018.
ruppsn schrieb:
So to be future-proof, you would then wire in a star topology and use a CAT-7 cable instead of the green one for the KNX bus cable? Wouldn't that be the conclusion from what was said? You could also use a green CAT-7 for nostalgic reasons [emoji6]
NO!!
KNX cable is certified for a test voltage of 4 kV and may be installed without special protection alongside and even in the same conduit as 230V cables (including in the distribution board!!). CAT cables must be installed separately from 230V cables and in a separate conduit. So if you use a bus cable, then use the green KNX cable!! (And this has nothing to do with the color, as KNX cables also come in purple.)
I would still run CAT cables in parallel. There are now several devices that do KNX over IP (Gira G1 as an example), and you can of course install them in the same conduit as the KNX cable. Just not together with 230V.
Since a gateway from KNX to DALI is required, currently DALI only makes sense if you are dimming a large number of LED loads. The cost per channel for KNX LED dimmers is currently around 45€/channel. DALI costs about 30€/channel. A KNX DALI gateway is likely to cost around 300€. This means DALI becomes cost-effective from about 20 LED dimming channels onwards.
You need to carefully consider whether having two systems is really worthwhile in detail.
You need to carefully consider whether having two systems is really worthwhile in detail.
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