ᐅ Which control system? Managing heating, ventilation, and air conditioning (HVAC) with an app
Created on: 25 Dec 2017 18:02
D
Dark_Templar
Hello everyone,
I am about to start building and have the following systems planned. However, I am not sure how to best implement them.
Heating: Viessmann Vitodens 300-W
Ventilation: Zehnder Q450
Air conditioning: Daikin Emura (living room + child’s bedroom 1 + child’s bedroom 2)
Door communication: Open, target setup: video + preferably fingerprint
Home cinema (on the living floor): motorized screen + motorized curtain
I would like to control heating, ventilation, and air conditioning via apps. Each manufacturer offers a separate app for this, which would be acceptable to me.
On the living floor, I want to control 4 blinds, at least 4 lighting zones, the motorized screen, and the motorized curtain via a touch panel. Ideally, this panel would be the same one used for door communication. I want to control all other floors conventionally.
How would you organize this?
I am about to start building and have the following systems planned. However, I am not sure how to best implement them.
Heating: Viessmann Vitodens 300-W
Ventilation: Zehnder Q450
Air conditioning: Daikin Emura (living room + child’s bedroom 1 + child’s bedroom 2)
Door communication: Open, target setup: video + preferably fingerprint
Home cinema (on the living floor): motorized screen + motorized curtain
I would like to control heating, ventilation, and air conditioning via apps. Each manufacturer offers a separate app for this, which would be acceptable to me.
On the living floor, I want to control 4 blinds, at least 4 lighting zones, the motorized screen, and the motorized curtain via a touch panel. Ideally, this panel would be the same one used for door communication. I want to control all other floors conventionally.
How would you organize this?
Tom1607 schrieb:
That’s why I recommend KNX and EVERYTHING wired in a star topology to the distribution panel. I agree with such "compromises": star wiring is fundamental to the core idea of being able to individually address all points right at the network level. Regarding "systems," my advice is that the homeowner should determine which category they belong to: The open-source enthusiast prefers the effort of freshly written code, enjoys independence and transparency, and maintains full control. Those who belong to the convenience / Windows group—meaning they accept a black box in terms of components/content to get a ready-to-use product—will be happier with "off-the-shelf" systems. These are often based on bus structures, which can be easier to implement in networks designed as star topologies than the other way around. A consortium system—where a handful of manufacturers develop a common standard—is a practical compromise; however, I would avoid proprietary standards from a single manufacturer. KNX might be similar to VHS: eventually an S-VHS came along, but proponents of Betamax and Video 2000 still preferred "their" systems, even if the others became more widespread.
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Hello,
So, even though I’m an engineer and a big self-confessed tinkerer, I have to admit that I’m not really a fan of tech:
What do you expect to gain from controlling heating and ventilation via an app? We have installed the same systems, and they do offer built-in control (KNX also works, but requires an expensive interface), but I have never set it up and don’t plan to. Why should I? The systems are only serviced once a year. Okay, the heating is switched between winter and summer modes at some point. Otherwise, there is no need to adjust anything. In other words, with a properly configured heating and ventilation system, there simply is no need for manual intervention.
(I don’t have much experience with air conditioning to comment on that.)
I wouldn’t take the risk of exposing a heating system to the internet. Viessmann and similar manufacturers are not known as IT experts; their apps have already been hacked, and script kiddies have caused heating systems to shut down remotely.
Even more critical is the situation with door communication. This is a security-critical system that should not be connected to a network, especially if it also controls the door opener. If someone wants to break in, they should physically come to the door.
Lighting control and similar features are a really nice convenience, and I think that in 10–15 years, almost every house will have them. KNX seems to offer significant advantages here. But: if you’re not willing or able to learn programming yourself, it will become a very costly endeavor. I certainly would have liked to do it; but honestly, I couldn’t spare 2–4 weeks of uninterrupted time. Some people here say they invested 400 hours or more. That might be possible if you have no job, no partner, and no children. In real life, probably not so much.
The tinkerer in me is always a bit sad that we didn’t install KNX, but the practical side of me can’t identify any situation in our house where conventional electrical installation put us at a (comfort) disadvantage.
Just my two cents...
Best regards,
Andreas
So, even though I’m an engineer and a big self-confessed tinkerer, I have to admit that I’m not really a fan of tech:
Dark_Templar schrieb:
Heating: Viessmann Vitodens 300-W
Ventilation: Zehnder Q450
Air conditioning: Daikin Emura (living room + child 1 + child 2)
Door communication: Open, intended: video + ideally fingerprint
Home cinema (in living area): motorized screen + retractable curtain
I want to be able to control heating, ventilation, and air conditioning via an app. Each manufacturer offers a separate app that would allow this, which would be fine for me.
What do you expect to gain from controlling heating and ventilation via an app? We have installed the same systems, and they do offer built-in control (KNX also works, but requires an expensive interface), but I have never set it up and don’t plan to. Why should I? The systems are only serviced once a year. Okay, the heating is switched between winter and summer modes at some point. Otherwise, there is no need to adjust anything. In other words, with a properly configured heating and ventilation system, there simply is no need for manual intervention.
(I don’t have much experience with air conditioning to comment on that.)
I wouldn’t take the risk of exposing a heating system to the internet. Viessmann and similar manufacturers are not known as IT experts; their apps have already been hacked, and script kiddies have caused heating systems to shut down remotely.
Even more critical is the situation with door communication. This is a security-critical system that should not be connected to a network, especially if it also controls the door opener. If someone wants to break in, they should physically come to the door.
Lighting control and similar features are a really nice convenience, and I think that in 10–15 years, almost every house will have them. KNX seems to offer significant advantages here. But: if you’re not willing or able to learn programming yourself, it will become a very costly endeavor. I certainly would have liked to do it; but honestly, I couldn’t spare 2–4 weeks of uninterrupted time. Some people here say they invested 400 hours or more. That might be possible if you have no job, no partner, and no children. In real life, probably not so much.
The tinkerer in me is always a bit sad that we didn’t install KNX, but the practical side of me can’t identify any situation in our house where conventional electrical installation put us at a (comfort) disadvantage.
Just my two cents...
Best regards,
Andreas
D
Dark_Templar28 Dec 2017 13:38I think that’s a solid approach, I see it similarly: heating and ventilation need to operate reliably. As for app control, I just mean that I don’t really see a point in KNX for that—manufacturer apps are sufficient.
Lighting control, however, is a different matter.
There are now systems you can calibrate yourself: Busch free@Home as a closed but simple KNX solution, and Gira X1 as an open and somewhat more complex option.
I’ll consult knowledgeable electricians to see how I can control lighting easily.
Lighting control, however, is a different matter.
There are now systems you can calibrate yourself: Busch free@Home as a closed but simple KNX solution, and Gira X1 as an open and somewhat more complex option.
I’ll consult knowledgeable electricians to see how I can control lighting easily.
Dark_Templar schrieb:
I find that a solid approach, I agree: heating and ventilation systems need to run reliably. App control: I just wanted to say, I don’t see any point in KNX for that – the manufacturer apps are sufficient anyway. I agree to some extent, but this has less to do with KNX itself and more with its integration into home automation. KNX is just one of many options for automation – even if some see it differently [emoji6]
Still, I integrate or plan to integrate it, not so much to actively control heating or controlled mechanical ventilation, but more to be conveniently informed about faults or filter changes. That’s the main point: comfort.
Besides, I find it quite useful to be able to record and analyze the parameters or behavior of my building technology. Probably the engineer in me combined with the playful side coming through [emoji6]
Lighting control would definitely be a topic. Right now, I’m not entirely sure if you would actually need an automation bus like KNX for that. From my knowledge, DALI or DMX (also bus systems) do not necessarily require KNX or similar protocols.
Nowadays there are systems you can adjust yourself: Busch free@Home as a closed but simple KNX-like system and as an open and somewhat more complicated option: Gira X1. The question is whether Free@Home is really that much cheaper? Why bind yourself to one manufacturer (and let them dictate prices) if you can get a fully featured KNX system at the same or only slightly higher cost? For ME, that makes little sense, but it might be worth considering.
The Gira X1 is a logic/visualization server and IP gateway in DIN rail format for the KNX bus. A more affordable (though not quite as powerful) alternative to the Gira Homeserver. Or simply put: the X1 is KNX [emoji6]
I will get advice from knowledgeable electricians on how I can easily control the lighting. In my experience, the biggest challenge on the way to a bus system is finding a competent planner or electrician who doesn’t try to overcharge you but instead shows you a solution that fits your needs.