ᐅ Timber Frame Construction vs. Passive House: Pros and Cons of Each Building Material?
Created on: 5 Aug 2014 13:57
S
schmitzkatze
Hello everyone,
we are planning to build a new single-family house and are unsure whether to choose a timber frame or “brick by brick” construction (considering financial aspects as well as indoor climate and other factors).
Originally, we thought about building the timber frame house ourselves because, given the following conditions, I believe we could save a lot of money compared to a prefab house or invest the money saved into higher quality than what a prefab manufacturer can offer:
- We have a master carpenter in the family (who is also willing to frame and erect the entire house and guide us on how to insulate the walls, etc.)
- Space and tools for carpentry and assembly are available (an empty barn with a crane, forklift, etc.)
- The building plot is less than 100 meters (330 feet) from the barn and our current home (so it’s worthwhile to do some work on the site after work)
- Although we are not professionals, as the builders we don’t shy away from working evenings and weekends and consider ourselves reasonably handy
We have already discussed our ideas with an architect who pointed out that, for a solid masonry house, the indoor climate and thermal mass are significantly better. The carpenter, however, emphasizes the excellent (or possibly better) insulation properties of a timber house. If we decide on the masonry house, we would generally trust ourselves to handle the bricklaying as well (at least with an expert supervising).
Is there perhaps a comparison of pros and cons for timber versus masonry as building materials? Or could someone list the most important points to consider? Are there any formulas or tools available to compare the costs of both construction methods?
Many thanks in advance for any replies!
Best regards
schmitzkatze
we are planning to build a new single-family house and are unsure whether to choose a timber frame or “brick by brick” construction (considering financial aspects as well as indoor climate and other factors).
Originally, we thought about building the timber frame house ourselves because, given the following conditions, I believe we could save a lot of money compared to a prefab house or invest the money saved into higher quality than what a prefab manufacturer can offer:
- We have a master carpenter in the family (who is also willing to frame and erect the entire house and guide us on how to insulate the walls, etc.)
- Space and tools for carpentry and assembly are available (an empty barn with a crane, forklift, etc.)
- The building plot is less than 100 meters (330 feet) from the barn and our current home (so it’s worthwhile to do some work on the site after work)
- Although we are not professionals, as the builders we don’t shy away from working evenings and weekends and consider ourselves reasonably handy
We have already discussed our ideas with an architect who pointed out that, for a solid masonry house, the indoor climate and thermal mass are significantly better. The carpenter, however, emphasizes the excellent (or possibly better) insulation properties of a timber house. If we decide on the masonry house, we would generally trust ourselves to handle the bricklaying as well (at least with an expert supervising).
Is there perhaps a comparison of pros and cons for timber versus masonry as building materials? Or could someone list the most important points to consider? Are there any formulas or tools available to compare the costs of both construction methods?
Many thanks in advance for any replies!
Best regards
schmitzkatze
Manu1976 schrieb:
1. The pollen filter is an optional extra. Standard mechanical ventilation with heat recovery systems don’t include one.
2. We have a heat exchanger, that is, a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery.
3. The manufacturer is Pluggit (is it okay to mention that here?) – so not a cheap unit, everything installed correctly and working fine.
4. Despite having a closed kitchen, we still have cooking odors throughout the entire ground floor.
5. Not only cooking smells, but also outdoor odors enter the house. This is especially noticeable in winter when a neighbor burns something they shouldn’t. Sometimes it even makes your eyes water.
6. No, this is not the reason we are building again now. We’re not completely happy with our current floor plan, and we need a third children’s bedroom. But our experiences are why we are now building solid (massive) walls without insulation.Well, I still don’t understand.
1. Shouldn’t at least an F7 filter be installed?
2. Sure, but an enthalpy heat exchanger includes moisture recovery. That can be retrofitted.
4. Something doesn’t add up. After at most an hour, you can’t smell that a cooking session took place in our house.
5. That problem can occur if the wind direction is unfavorable and the wood burners start up. But after a 10-minute airing with windows open, you also have dirt inside the house...
I would also really like to know what the customer service had to say about this.
Best regards
What is customer service supposed to say? Nothing is broken or incorrectly installed. Everything is normal. And I’m not the only one with this issue; friends who have the same controlled mechanical ventilation system experience it too. It’s generally a common problem with controlled mechanical ventilation systems. There is some kind of filter installed, but I don’t know exactly what type.
Moisture recovery isn’t really great either; many people have advised me against it. Over time, it creates an ideal environment for bacteria that get stirred up and spread around. The same applies to room humidifiers.
And yes, in the kitchen you don’t notice any smells because that’s where the exhaust is located. But somehow, the odor is still noticeable in all the other rooms without exhaust. The smell is expelled with the air and, around the corner of the house, the air gets sucked back in. If the wind is blowing in an unfavorable direction, it carries the smell directly to the air intake, and the odor returns inside the house. Just not in the kitchen, but throughout the entire house. It is particularly strong in the small children’s room on the ground floor because the room is very small and the door is usually closed. In the other rooms, it’s less noticeable because they are larger and the doors are open. With natural ventilation through windows, I can still decide when and if I want to air out. If the smell bothers me, I just close the window, and that’s it. With a controlled mechanical ventilation system, I can’t go down to the basement every time and turn it off when the air outside smells bad.
Of course, there are supporters and opponents of these systems. Some people don’t mind dry air, while others do. There are advantages and disadvantages, and everyone values different things. Since we regularly open windows anyway (to air out the bed, shake out rugs, water flowers on the balcony, etc.) and especially patio doors, it doesn’t really bring us much benefit—only the downsides. And it’s certainly different if you spend most of your time in the house with controlled mechanical ventilation in the morning, evening, and at night, or if you’re a homemaker who spends most of the day at home dealing with the dry air.
Moisture recovery isn’t really great either; many people have advised me against it. Over time, it creates an ideal environment for bacteria that get stirred up and spread around. The same applies to room humidifiers.
And yes, in the kitchen you don’t notice any smells because that’s where the exhaust is located. But somehow, the odor is still noticeable in all the other rooms without exhaust. The smell is expelled with the air and, around the corner of the house, the air gets sucked back in. If the wind is blowing in an unfavorable direction, it carries the smell directly to the air intake, and the odor returns inside the house. Just not in the kitchen, but throughout the entire house. It is particularly strong in the small children’s room on the ground floor because the room is very small and the door is usually closed. In the other rooms, it’s less noticeable because they are larger and the doors are open. With natural ventilation through windows, I can still decide when and if I want to air out. If the smell bothers me, I just close the window, and that’s it. With a controlled mechanical ventilation system, I can’t go down to the basement every time and turn it off when the air outside smells bad.
Of course, there are supporters and opponents of these systems. Some people don’t mind dry air, while others do. There are advantages and disadvantages, and everyone values different things. Since we regularly open windows anyway (to air out the bed, shake out rugs, water flowers on the balcony, etc.) and especially patio doors, it doesn’t really bring us much benefit—only the downsides. And it’s certainly different if you spend most of your time in the house with controlled mechanical ventilation in the morning, evening, and at night, or if you’re a homemaker who spends most of the day at home dealing with the dry air.
B
Bauexperte13 Aug 2014 22:51Good evening,
Regards, Bauexperte
Cascada schrieb:According to whom?
That may be true. However, a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery reduces ventilation heat losses and provides a noticeable increase in comfort during the cold season.
Cascada schrieb:There are also people who break their fingers while picking their nose...
People also often report problems caused by insufficient or incorrect ventilation in masonry houses without external thermal insulation composite systems (ETICS) – and even more so in those with ETICS.
Cascada schrieb:That’s true; but you end up trading it for other disadvantages. As always in life, everything has pros and cons; it’s always a matter of weighing priorities.
With a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery, the problem of excessive indoor humidity is generally resolved.
Cascada schrieb:And I congratulate your sales consultant!
I just find the opinions about plastic materials in the walls ("creepy and unhealthy," etc.) very amusing. In masonry houses with ETICS, the plastic is just outside the wall instead of inside it.
Regards, Bauexperte
Hello,
Best regards from Franconia
PS: I’m still working on the quote function 🙂
Bauexperte schrieb:Me. Explanations can be found above.
Who says that?
Bauexperte schrieb:... that has happened before. But many posts referred to insufficient or incorrect ventilation.
There are also people who break their finger while picking their nose ...
Bauexperte schrieb:Maybe. Are you referring to the disadvantages like filter replacements on the unit, exhaust vents, and electricity consumption? And of course the investment and interest costs.
That's true; but then you "buy" other disadvantages. As always in life, everything has pros and cons; it’s always a matter of weighing priorities.
Bauexperte schrieb:Thanks, no complaints here. But surely you can explain why vapor barriers in the walls are considered problematic and unhealthy, and why external thermal insulation composite systems (ETICS) on a masonry house are much better.
And congratulations to your sales advisor!
Best regards from Franconia
PS: I’m still working on the quote function 🙂
B
Bauexperte14 Aug 2014 10:35Hello,
Best regards, Bauexperte
Cascada schrieb:Read the answers from the users in this thread who have installed such a system; then you will know exactly what advantages and disadvantages you are dealing with.
Do you mean the disadvantages like the filter replacements on the unit, the exhaust valves, and the power consumption? And of course the initial investment/interest.
Cascada schrieb:I’ve already written that neither foil nor an external insulation system (ETICS) is unhealthy. Whether one is better or worse always depends on the viewer’s perspective.
But you can surely explain to me why foil inside the walls is unpleasant and unhealthy, and why an external insulation system (ETICS) on a masonry house is much better.
Best regards, Bauexperte
Hello,
well, I consider the points I mentioned as disadvantages. We are fully aware of these, but after two years with mechanical ventilation with heat recovery, I no longer want to miss the benefits I mentioned.
You didn’t say "creepy and unhealthy" either. We have both – vapor barrier in the wall AND external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS).
However, I didn’t quite understand your comment congratulating the sales consultant. I already knew the advantages and disadvantages of a timber frame prefabricated house beforehand.
Best regards
well, I consider the points I mentioned as disadvantages. We are fully aware of these, but after two years with mechanical ventilation with heat recovery, I no longer want to miss the benefits I mentioned.
You didn’t say "creepy and unhealthy" either. We have both – vapor barrier in the wall AND external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS).
However, I didn’t quite understand your comment congratulating the sales consultant. I already knew the advantages and disadvantages of a timber frame prefabricated house beforehand.
Best regards
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