ᐅ Timber Frame Construction vs. Passive House: Pros and Cons of Each Building Material?
Created on: 5 Aug 2014 13:57
S
schmitzkatze
Hello everyone,
we are planning to build a new single-family house and are unsure whether to choose a timber frame or “brick by brick” construction (considering financial aspects as well as indoor climate and other factors).
Originally, we thought about building the timber frame house ourselves because, given the following conditions, I believe we could save a lot of money compared to a prefab house or invest the money saved into higher quality than what a prefab manufacturer can offer:
- We have a master carpenter in the family (who is also willing to frame and erect the entire house and guide us on how to insulate the walls, etc.)
- Space and tools for carpentry and assembly are available (an empty barn with a crane, forklift, etc.)
- The building plot is less than 100 meters (330 feet) from the barn and our current home (so it’s worthwhile to do some work on the site after work)
- Although we are not professionals, as the builders we don’t shy away from working evenings and weekends and consider ourselves reasonably handy
We have already discussed our ideas with an architect who pointed out that, for a solid masonry house, the indoor climate and thermal mass are significantly better. The carpenter, however, emphasizes the excellent (or possibly better) insulation properties of a timber house. If we decide on the masonry house, we would generally trust ourselves to handle the bricklaying as well (at least with an expert supervising).
Is there perhaps a comparison of pros and cons for timber versus masonry as building materials? Or could someone list the most important points to consider? Are there any formulas or tools available to compare the costs of both construction methods?
Many thanks in advance for any replies!
Best regards
schmitzkatze
we are planning to build a new single-family house and are unsure whether to choose a timber frame or “brick by brick” construction (considering financial aspects as well as indoor climate and other factors).
Originally, we thought about building the timber frame house ourselves because, given the following conditions, I believe we could save a lot of money compared to a prefab house or invest the money saved into higher quality than what a prefab manufacturer can offer:
- We have a master carpenter in the family (who is also willing to frame and erect the entire house and guide us on how to insulate the walls, etc.)
- Space and tools for carpentry and assembly are available (an empty barn with a crane, forklift, etc.)
- The building plot is less than 100 meters (330 feet) from the barn and our current home (so it’s worthwhile to do some work on the site after work)
- Although we are not professionals, as the builders we don’t shy away from working evenings and weekends and consider ourselves reasonably handy
We have already discussed our ideas with an architect who pointed out that, for a solid masonry house, the indoor climate and thermal mass are significantly better. The carpenter, however, emphasizes the excellent (or possibly better) insulation properties of a timber house. If we decide on the masonry house, we would generally trust ourselves to handle the bricklaying as well (at least with an expert supervising).
Is there perhaps a comparison of pros and cons for timber versus masonry as building materials? Or could someone list the most important points to consider? Are there any formulas or tools available to compare the costs of both construction methods?
Many thanks in advance for any replies!
Best regards
schmitzkatze
Hello schmitzkatze,
we were also facing the decision between a timber frame house and a solid construction house. We have now decided about 80% in favor of a brick house with monolithic construction. (So without additional external insulation, at most some insulation inside the bricks).
I have been in timber frame houses several times, and I do find the indoor climate really nice. However, I personally cannot imagine living in a house where the walls are made of “insulation material” and “a few wooden studs.” The OSB boards or similar are just there to allow plastering and/or installing fixtures; the actual stability comes from the “timber studs.” For example, if you want to attach something on the outside of the wall (like a carport), you need to know exactly where the timber frame is.
What we can imagine, and why the 20% is still open, is a timber house built with solid wood walls. That means prefab stacked board walls are used as walls. These can be plastered or clad with wood, just like any other wall. However, I’m not a big fan of all the drywall work involved. If you want plastered interior walls, you have to cover the entire inside of the house with drywall and then finish it.
With a monolithic solid house, you don’t have additional wood-based panels or gypsum boards to install. The plaster is applied directly onto the bricks with no extra layer in between. Allegedly, bricks have better temperature storage capacity due to their higher mass. We also visited a modern brick house, and in terms of indoor climate and warmth, it was just as good as a modern timber house.
By the way, friends of ours saved a lot of money during the shell construction because they helped with the masonry for 2-3 weeks with three helpers. They mostly carried and cut the bricks... The actual masonry work, or better said, “gluing,” was done by the professionals.
Regarding building the wooden walls yourself: you really have to work very precisely, and the connections between the foundation slab, walls, and ceilings are extremely important. If something doesn’t fit there, you will have a problem. I always thought all timber frame walls are machine-made?! Or are timber frame houses actually built by carpenters by hand? The solid wood house walls, for example, are cut with laser precision down to the millimeter.
we were also facing the decision between a timber frame house and a solid construction house. We have now decided about 80% in favor of a brick house with monolithic construction. (So without additional external insulation, at most some insulation inside the bricks).
I have been in timber frame houses several times, and I do find the indoor climate really nice. However, I personally cannot imagine living in a house where the walls are made of “insulation material” and “a few wooden studs.” The OSB boards or similar are just there to allow plastering and/or installing fixtures; the actual stability comes from the “timber studs.” For example, if you want to attach something on the outside of the wall (like a carport), you need to know exactly where the timber frame is.
What we can imagine, and why the 20% is still open, is a timber house built with solid wood walls. That means prefab stacked board walls are used as walls. These can be plastered or clad with wood, just like any other wall. However, I’m not a big fan of all the drywall work involved. If you want plastered interior walls, you have to cover the entire inside of the house with drywall and then finish it.
With a monolithic solid house, you don’t have additional wood-based panels or gypsum boards to install. The plaster is applied directly onto the bricks with no extra layer in between. Allegedly, bricks have better temperature storage capacity due to their higher mass. We also visited a modern brick house, and in terms of indoor climate and warmth, it was just as good as a modern timber house.
By the way, friends of ours saved a lot of money during the shell construction because they helped with the masonry for 2-3 weeks with three helpers. They mostly carried and cut the bricks... The actual masonry work, or better said, “gluing,” was done by the professionals.
Regarding building the wooden walls yourself: you really have to work very precisely, and the connections between the foundation slab, walls, and ceilings are extremely important. If something doesn’t fit there, you will have a problem. I always thought all timber frame walls are machine-made?! Or are timber frame houses actually built by carpenters by hand? The solid wood house walls, for example, are cut with laser precision down to the millimeter.
D
Doc.Schnaggls7 Aug 2014 14:47Hello,
just a quick note:
There are indeed prefab house manufacturers that do not use any kind of membrane, whether vapor-permeable or not, inside the walls.
For example, our prefab timber frame house has a fleece layer in the walls and no membrane.
Regards,
Dirk
just a quick note:
There are indeed prefab house manufacturers that do not use any kind of membrane, whether vapor-permeable or not, inside the walls.
For example, our prefab timber frame house has a fleece layer in the walls and no membrane.
Regards,
Dirk
I
Irgendwoabaier7 Aug 2014 19:15Hi,
our timber house is still under construction. But for your information:
Wall structure: without plastic vapor barrier. Insulation: cellulose (also in the roof) and within the installation cavity as well as in a few sections that cannot be blown in: wood fiber. The layering from inside to outside is: gypsum board, wood fiber/wood, OSB board, cellulose/wood, wood fiber board, plaster. The roof is similar, only the wood fiber board is replaced by an exterior sheathing board, and the plaster is replaced by roof tiles on the corresponding substructure. In terms of indoor climate, it should be quite good—at least this is confirmed by houses from the same builder or with the same wall and roof structure. Thermal insulation benefits from the mass of the cellulose insulation as well, which is not only according to seller claims but also confirmed by others who built with the same concept; the system also performs well in sound insulation (already testable—we are currently doing the interior finishing, and the nearby sports field occasionally provides a substantial level of noise).
Downside: the price. Autoclaved aerated concrete (AAC) block houses are generally cheaper. With comparable thermal insulation, the timber frame house has slimmer walls; for sound insulation from outside and summer heat protection, mass plays a decisive role (try lifting a 365mm (14 inch) AAC block—it’s not much!), which tends to favor the timber house (depending on the insulation material and of course the wall thickness).
Best regards,
I.
our timber house is still under construction. But for your information:
Wall structure: without plastic vapor barrier. Insulation: cellulose (also in the roof) and within the installation cavity as well as in a few sections that cannot be blown in: wood fiber. The layering from inside to outside is: gypsum board, wood fiber/wood, OSB board, cellulose/wood, wood fiber board, plaster. The roof is similar, only the wood fiber board is replaced by an exterior sheathing board, and the plaster is replaced by roof tiles on the corresponding substructure. In terms of indoor climate, it should be quite good—at least this is confirmed by houses from the same builder or with the same wall and roof structure. Thermal insulation benefits from the mass of the cellulose insulation as well, which is not only according to seller claims but also confirmed by others who built with the same concept; the system also performs well in sound insulation (already testable—we are currently doing the interior finishing, and the nearby sports field occasionally provides a substantial level of noise).
Downside: the price. Autoclaved aerated concrete (AAC) block houses are generally cheaper. With comparable thermal insulation, the timber frame house has slimmer walls; for sound insulation from outside and summer heat protection, mass plays a decisive role (try lifting a 365mm (14 inch) AAC block—it’s not much!), which tends to favor the timber house (depending on the insulation material and of course the wall thickness).
Best regards,
I.
Hello Schmitzkatze,
what does your architect think about the idea of doing the masonry yourselves or having a carpenter from your family "build" the house?
I think the doubts about your self-assessment come from the experience people have had with such projects – after all, the internet and TV are full of them. We also initially thought you could save a lot of money this way, since it can’t be that difficult if you know professionals and have two capable hands yourself (we also have carpenters in the family). But the closer the construction gets, the happier I am that I decided otherwise. A lot of money is at stake (either way), and in the end the consideration for safety prevailed.
What about a scaled-down version where, at the stage when the trades are being contracted, you sit down with your relative and see what he can actually take on?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not someone who says "It can’t be done" before trying, but I do believe many have tried and failed...
Best regards
what does your architect think about the idea of doing the masonry yourselves or having a carpenter from your family "build" the house?
I think the doubts about your self-assessment come from the experience people have had with such projects – after all, the internet and TV are full of them. We also initially thought you could save a lot of money this way, since it can’t be that difficult if you know professionals and have two capable hands yourself (we also have carpenters in the family). But the closer the construction gets, the happier I am that I decided otherwise. A lot of money is at stake (either way), and in the end the consideration for safety prevailed.
What about a scaled-down version where, at the stage when the trades are being contracted, you sit down with your relative and see what he can actually take on?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not someone who says "It can’t be done" before trying, but I do believe many have tried and failed...
Best regards
Hello Schmitzkatze,
also consider the perhaps unlikely scenario from your perspective that there might be disputes or problems with the related carpenter regarding the "compensation for effort" or the quality of his work (which you might not like). In that case, he might no longer go the extra mile for you... Very good friendships and family relationships have already broken over things like this.
I would say that I have a good technical understanding and possibly above-average DIY skills. But the money you earn at work won’t be recovered through your own labor. Not to mention the lack of warranty on the essential building structure.
Good luck
also consider the perhaps unlikely scenario from your perspective that there might be disputes or problems with the related carpenter regarding the "compensation for effort" or the quality of his work (which you might not like). In that case, he might no longer go the extra mile for you... Very good friendships and family relationships have already broken over things like this.
I would say that I have a good technical understanding and possibly above-average DIY skills. But the money you earn at work won’t be recovered through your own labor. Not to mention the lack of warranty on the essential building structure.
Good luck
We have now been living in our timber frame house (by the way, without any vapor barrier) for six months and feel very comfortable here. So far, I don’t miss anything, and I can’t think of anything that would have been better with a solid construction house. However, I also don’t see a big advantage of a timber frame house compared to a solid construction house. It’s pretty much balanced and a matter of personal preference.
What I find cool is that I can simply drive a screw into the wall, and the picture, cabinet, shelf, or whatever else stays in place. Admittedly, it’s a pretty weak argument, but I enjoy not having to put in a wall plug every time.
Regarding doing work yourself:
Even if you don’t set a deadline at first and think you have all the time in the world... it can really become a test of endurance. When you come home every day from work and feel guilty if you don’t go to the construction site at least once. When the construction site dominates every weekend... no social activities, no meeting friends, no barbecues...
When financially, everything revolves around the build, and your conscience nags you if you want to treat yourself to something.
When you constantly feel like this or that must be finished, when a certain contractor is scheduled, but you can’t coordinate because the carpenter friend isn’t available until later.
And so on.
Strong friendships and relationships have already been broken on sites like these. Neither is worth money to me, and the longer a build takes, the more it strains your nerves.
My advice is to think carefully about doing work yourself...
What I find cool is that I can simply drive a screw into the wall, and the picture, cabinet, shelf, or whatever else stays in place. Admittedly, it’s a pretty weak argument, but I enjoy not having to put in a wall plug every time.
Regarding doing work yourself:
Even if you don’t set a deadline at first and think you have all the time in the world... it can really become a test of endurance. When you come home every day from work and feel guilty if you don’t go to the construction site at least once. When the construction site dominates every weekend... no social activities, no meeting friends, no barbecues...
When financially, everything revolves around the build, and your conscience nags you if you want to treat yourself to something.
When you constantly feel like this or that must be finished, when a certain contractor is scheduled, but you can’t coordinate because the carpenter friend isn’t available until later.
And so on.
Strong friendships and relationships have already been broken on sites like these. Neither is worth money to me, and the longer a build takes, the more it strains your nerves.
My advice is to think carefully about doing work yourself...
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