ᐅ Window supplier does not deliver the agreed roller shutter box

With silicone and foam, you can build entire houses *flööööt*

Sausage rolls and similar snacks were also frequently accepted by window sealers 1-3. This doesn’t necessarily have a positive effect on the quality of the work. But it’s true that many simply don’t know any better. “We’ve been doing it like this for 30 years.” A window installer once told me—whom I asked several times if he could fix the issue—that I was welcome to call him for advice, as long as he wasn’t the one installing my windows. Under German law, he would then be responsible for the warranty on windows and roller shutters that he didn’t supply (the follow-up trade), which inevitably leads to trouble. And even if the homeowner provides a written statement waiving these claims, it doesn’t hold up in court, and the well-meaning window installer ends up in a difficult position and has to take responsibility.

I can completely understand why he then chooses to stay out of it.

11ant schrieb:

Exactly the inability to find a convincing, satisfactory answer to this was a major reason why I temporarily withdrew from the window industry. Basically, as a builder or homeowner, you have to reverse the whole process, meaning you first find a good installer and then have them supply the windows as well. But customers also need to contribute to getting this broken market back on track – because they let their price expectations be influenced too much by cheap installers who botch the installation at no extra cost. Therefore, every good installer knows horror stories, but understandably does not want to experience from a warranty perspective the “biter bit” scenario. In summary, what customers can do:
1. Be aware (also in terms of price) that the installation is an essential part of the “overall quality product”;
2. Understand that installers are reluctant to work for people who don’t allow them a reasonable trade margin;
3. For safety, do some research yourself on what should be considered during installation (just like with external thermal insulation composite systems, there are plenty of expert videos showing nightmare examples);
4. (In other areas as well, e.g., kitchen installation, no less important) avoid the type of tradesperson who appears like an action hero carrying a whole ammo belt full of silicone and foam guns – they usually apply a “one gun fits all” approach to everything that’s not nailed down;
5. Plan vacation days to be present onsite – see point 3., because playing the nitpicking controller who then embarrassingly quotes the wrong standard only destroys one’s own authority without any benefit;
6. Only when points 1 to 5 are positively checked off (otherwise it’s hardly useful) should you contribute a bit to the work atmosphere onsite, for example with some snacks and drinks.

Great, thank you very much for your efforts. Do you perhaps have a tip on how I can politely or kindly encourage craftsmen to accept any advice I might have? I imagine this is not easy. Would it be better to ask questions like if this or that shouldn’t be done differently? Or to make clear demands? It has to be done this and that way? Thanks!

11ant schrieb:

In summary, what a customer can do:
1. Be aware (also in terms of cost) that installation is a crucial part of the overall quality product;
2. Understand that the installer may not want to work for clients who do not allow them a reasonable trade margin;
3. To be safe, do some reading yourself about what should be considered during installation (just like with ETICS, there are plenty of expert videos showing horror examples);
4. (Also in other areas, e.g., kitchen fitting not less important) avoid the type of tradesperson who shows up like an action hero with a full cartridge belt of silicone and foam guns – they usually apply the same “one gun fits all” approach to everything that’s not nailed down;
5. Plan vacation days to be present on the construction site – see point 3, because playing the nitpicking inspector who confusingly cites the wrong standards is pointless and only undermines your authority.
6. Only when points 1 to 5 are positively checked off (since otherwise it doesn’t help much) should you consider contributing a bit with snacks and drinks to improve the working atmosphere on site.

Believe me @11ant, we did all that (or so we think), but the result was still less than optimal.
We purchased Internorm windows from a certified (Internorm) specialist dealer who had a showroom and came recommended by our architect, at what we still consider a fair package price. If he had said, “I would like to install frame-width compressible sealing tapes (extra cost €600) and proper masking will require 8 additional hours (about €65/hour),” and that’s what you’ll get (a clean window installation according to DIN standards, which we expected anyway), we would have been the last to say no. We definitely did not give that impression, especially based on our choice of the general contractor.
My sister-in-law was always onsite bringing hot coffee (it was freezing cold) and cake. Our builder kindly carried the window units up to the upper floor (despite prior different arrangements), which took half a day at our expense.

I arrived, and the foam was discussed (the installers all more or less spoke German but were not native German speakers, contrary to what was suggested during the sales talk!). My sister-in-law insisted on installing compressible tape, but only a 2 cm (about 0.8 inches) narrow strip appeared. Unfortunately, the window fitter arrived a day later than scheduled, and I had unmovable appointments that day; by then, it was already done. Whether I could have prevented this or improved the installation is debatable. The boss was present himself!

In hindsight, we probably should have ordered the windows together with the doors. The door installer did his work extremely precisely. So it can be done differently.

Estimated extra effort for installation that would have satisfied me: a few hundred euros for frame-width compressible sealing tapes (as with the doors), proper masking especially in the corners, possibly 4 hours. So roughly 1,000 € (about 1,000 USD) per half-house. I would have gladly paid that! Absolutely. I just didn’t have the choice. 😡

superzapp schrieb:

If he had said: I would like to install compressible foam tape with a frame width (additional cost $600) and that proper masking requires 8 extra hours (around $65 per hour), and in return you get what you expect anyway — a properly installed window according to “DIN” standards — then we would have been the last ones to say no to that.

Are you aware of any DIN standard for window sealing?

Improper sealing is the least of the problems; the undersized roller shutter box and the lack of load support on the masonry are much more serious. There is no double-leaf window secured at the lintel, and the windows are already sagging.