ᐅ Sound barrier wall for neighbor’s heat pump

Grym schrieb:
...Then a different gas is simply injected into Germany’s almost infinitely large gas/gas reserve network. This gas network and its reserves are probably by far the largest energy storage systems worldwide. And it can be switched from fossil to completely non-fossil without any problems and gradually.

Off-topic: And how is the CO2 balance with non-fossil gases?

11ant schrieb:
for example, using an unregistered association.

Which brings me back to the question of liability in delivery contracts or costs in case of a defect, if a member cannot or does not want to pay.

So: Who is liable and how?

Grym schrieb:
Unfortunately, you haven’t done your research properly.

@Nordlys is just an example with "his" gas heating system in this discussion. The main goal seems to be to keep the house as cheaply warm as possible.

Grym schrieb:
There are already 100% biogas tariffs for just under 10 cents. That is the current state of technology, and this price will continue to drop in 10 or 20 years, once it becomes more attractive.

Yes, today, biogas mainly interests enthusiasts, right? I was surprised that biogas is twice as expensive as our municipal utility (under 5 cents). Most people tend to look out for their own wallet.

For electricity, the extra cost is only about 13%. The barrier to taking environmental action is therefore much lower. By the way, we are already at 31.7% renewable energy in electricity due to the Renewable Energy Act, but this is not yet growing as much in heating.

Of course, there are still unsolved problems. And nobody really knows where we will stand in 10 to 20 years or more, but society needs to create incentives.

Grym schrieb:
A gas heating system today can still be in use in 50 years (well, renovated 1-2 times) and burn biogas, so-called wind gas, or other gases. That would no longer have anything to do with fossil fuels.

I hope there will be many more decentralized combined heat and power (CHP) plants. These are much more efficient than small individual systems in every household and also generate electricity as a byproduct. Whether micro-CHP units are a solution, I am more skeptical about.

By the way, from my point of view, a great example of more community-oriented but significantly more ecological action is the housing association "WEG Am Rundling" in Berlin.

20 houses with 22 residential units (owner-occupied houses and apartments) were primarily built from wood, clay, straw, hemp, linoleum, and other ecological building materials, inspired by the old Rundling village structures in Wendland. From a shared technical basement, the houses are supplied with heating energy, hot, cold, and service water, as well as electrical energy.

There’s also a film about it, titled "Film: A Village in Berlin."

toxicmolotow schrieb:
Which brings me back to the question of liability in supply contracts or costs in case of a malfunction, if a member cannot or does not want to pay.

Well, for now, you’re still allowed to run a little island of bliss on your own land.

Well, basically I think combined heat and power plants or district heating are great, but there is always a third party involved who wants to, can, and will profit from it. These additional costs have to be offset by construction synergies and ongoing savings. This a) rarely works out well and b) means you are tied in for 10, 20, or 30 years. I won’t just switch my house from gas to oil or electricity, but at least I can choose my supplier. With a combined heat and power plant or other local concepts, that’s not possible.

In addition, with a condominium owners’ association (homeowners’ association), the usual advantages and disadvantages apply.

At least I don’t have to worry about my own independent system.

It's crazy how often you hear about these conflicts. I'm so glad we only have reasonable neighbors who avoid this kind of trouble.

toxicmolotow schrieb:
Combined heat and power plants or local heating networks sound great, but there’s always a third party looking to profit

In the example of the Rundling project, it’s the community. There is no third party involved. The homeowners association (HOA) is the beneficiary, meaning all owners benefit. Unfortunately, projects like this are quite rare.

Of course, with combined heat and power plants built, for example, in the Cologne area, it’s mostly developers who install them to reduce their own costs and to better sell and market the usable space (which also positively affects compliance with the energy saving regulations in a row house development). Then the developer usually imposes a 20-year contracting agreement on the HOA.

It would be better if a non-profit housing group (NBG) marketed projects individually but was required as a condition to develop a proper concept and commit to its implementation. Meaning they would have to take responsibility and actively manage the project—for themselves, the community, and society.

toxicmolotow schrieb:
At least I don’t have to worry about my own little island

Someone has to start somewhere. And yes, evolution rarely happens overnight.

Instead, people often cause conflicts within non-profit housing groups (NBG) with their individual heat pumps (after all, there’s more space in the utility room with a split system) on rather limited plot sizes.

Unfortunately, the attitude still mostly is:

Nordlys schrieb:
It feels like rule number one: everyone looks after their own.