Hi,
I’m still undecided about installing home automation in our planned new build.
My requirements are as follows:
- Control of roller shutters or blinds (possibly window contacts to detect open windows)
- Control of heating / air source heat pump or solar system
- Control of a video intercom system via a tablet
Of course, I have looked into KNX and the material costs alone would be around 6000€ (approximately 6,350 USD). As an alternative, Loxone is mentioned increasingly often, although the proprietary format is a bit off-putting.
My requirements could also be met with a manufacturer-specific system.
Do you have any recommendations for or against home automation (in my case)?
Best regards
Acd85
I’m still undecided about installing home automation in our planned new build.
My requirements are as follows:
- Control of roller shutters or blinds (possibly window contacts to detect open windows)
- Control of heating / air source heat pump or solar system
- Control of a video intercom system via a tablet
Of course, I have looked into KNX and the material costs alone would be around 6000€ (approximately 6,350 USD). As an alternative, Loxone is mentioned increasingly often, although the proprietary format is a bit off-putting.
My requirements could also be met with a manufacturer-specific system.
Do you have any recommendations for or against home automation (in my case)?
Best regards
Acd85
zod schrieb:
Example scene for watching TV. All necessary devices turn on, lights and blinds adjust to the previously set state.
Example absence simulation. You simply activate the vacation scene. Music randomly plays in the house for half an hour. Lights turn on in the evening.
Example severe weather/fire. Blinds automatically raise based on weather station/smoke detector data.
Example burglary. Reed switches trigger even when no owner is home. Automatic call to the phone with video feed from the property.
You could go on forever. 🙂Then I’ll continue a bit. For TV and so on, I have a switchable power strip; with one button press, everything except the blinds is ready (and a Logitech Harmony remote for the rest). The blinds only need to be lowered sometimes; mostly they stay up during the day. Professional burglars are not deterred by absence simulation; others tend to come rather in the morning or so, not at night, because usually people are at home then. Severe weather is not an issue for me, maybe I need to secure something in the garden, but nothing on the house itself (just real blinds). Fire detection can be useful; it would make firefighting easier in our case. For burglary, I would rather rely on a proper alarm system.
Hi,
ok, here’s something to start with:
How do you switch on your receiver/TV/sound system with a bus system? Lights and blinds are fine, but then I’d need several different scenarios depending on the current weather, day/night, sun position. Personally, I find a central control for the blinds combined with a light switch more straightforward.
Ok, good point. Lights are difficult to control without a central system. Music… well… how loud should the system be to be heard from the street? At least mine definitely can’t be connected to the KNX bus. But I can just leave it on permanently and occasionally switch on the satellite receiver. You don’t need a bus for that...
Severe weather? My blinds should stay nicely closed then! They are also meant to protect the windows!
By the way, do they really respond directly to the anemometer? So if someone shoots at the wind measuring wheel with an air rifle once, the blinds go up?
Cool, that’s a real service for any burglar!
Raising the blinds in case of fire is a good idea. I will probably implement this with Somfy blinds and a smoke detector as well.
Burglary. Ok, yes, that helps only if the burglars actually open windows or doors and don’t break in through the window glass (the first is admittedly more likely). But that is also possible with cameras and any standard NAS for about €150 using built-in features.
Best regards,
Andreas
ok, here’s something to start with:
Example scene: Watching TV. All necessary devices turn on, lights and blinds adjust to the previously desired settings.
How do you switch on your receiver/TV/sound system with a bus system? Lights and blinds are fine, but then I’d need several different scenarios depending on the current weather, day/night, sun position. Personally, I find a central control for the blinds combined with a light switch more straightforward.
Example absence simulation. You simply start the holiday scene. Music randomly plays in the house for half an hour. Lights come on in the evening.
Ok, good point. Lights are difficult to control without a central system. Music… well… how loud should the system be to be heard from the street? At least mine definitely can’t be connected to the KNX bus. But I can just leave it on permanently and occasionally switch on the satellite receiver. You don’t need a bus for that...
Example severe weather/fire. Blinds automatically move up based on data from the weather station/smoke detector.
Example burglary. Reed switch triggers even though no owner is home. Automatic call to the phone with video transmission from the property.
Severe weather? My blinds should stay nicely closed then! They are also meant to protect the windows!
By the way, do they really respond directly to the anemometer? So if someone shoots at the wind measuring wheel with an air rifle once, the blinds go up?
Cool, that’s a real service for any burglar!
Raising the blinds in case of fire is a good idea. I will probably implement this with Somfy blinds and a smoke detector as well.
Burglary. Ok, yes, that helps only if the burglars actually open windows or doors and don’t break in through the window glass (the first is admittedly more likely). But that is also possible with cameras and any standard NAS for about €150 using built-in features.
Best regards,
Andreas
Saruss schrieb:
So, to continue, I have a switchable socket row for TV and other devices—one button press, everything is ready except the roller shutters (and a Logitech Harmony remote control for the rest). But I only need to lower the roller shutters occasionally; most of the time they stay up during the day. Professional burglars are not deterred by absence simulation; others tend to come more in the mornings or so, not at night, because usually people are home at night. Severe weather—no problem for me, since maybe I have to secure something in the garden, but nothing on the house itself (only real roller shutters). Fire alarms can be useful; at our place, they would help with extinguishing. For burglary protection, I’d rather rely on a real alarm system.
But you really are looking for the salt in the soup
KNX is a luxury. You need 2 or 3 actions for the TV. With KNX, just 1 → advantage.
Sure, a lot can be done without KNX, but those who have it, have it—and those who can, can.
Lowering roller shutters can also be specified, for example: only lower the shutters if the sun is shining on this or that side of the house.
I find it more sensible to catch burglars and be able to call the police to have them apprehended, rather than just making noise right away so they run away and might come back later; a matter of taste.
To continue:
Presence detectors everywhere. Lights turn on when a certain lux threshold is undercut and stay on as long as someone is in the room. After 10:00 p.m., the lights only come on at 20% to show the way.
Imagine having a laundry chute to the basement with a washer and dryer. Under the laundry chute is a light barrier that sends a message "Laundry washing" to the terminal. Likewise, the washing machine and dryer send messages when they are finished.
It is difficult to make people enthusiastic about KNX if they have never experienced it before. That’s why it remains a niche and quite expensive.
andimann schrieb:
How can you use a bus system to turn on your receiver / TV / audio system? Lighting and blinds, okay, but then I would need several different scenarios depending on the current weather/day/night/sun position. Personally, I find a central control for the blinds plus a light switch somehow clearer. No one is saying that this central control is no longer available. Those are all just additional features. You can also design the scenario so that the blinds and lights adjust based on sun position or time.
andimann schrieb:
Okay, good point. Lighting is difficult without central control. Music... well... how loud should the system be for it to be heard from the street? And at least mine cannot be connected to the KNX bus. But I can simply leave it on continuously and just turn on the satellite receiver occasionally. For that, a bus system isn’t necessary... It only needs to be loud enough for an intruder outside the house to hear it. Instead of music, you could also use some voice recordings (of course not just one, that would be obvious). For example, Sonos can be integrated well with KNX.
andimann schrieb:
Storm? Then my blinds should definitely stay down! They are also meant to protect the windows!
By the way, do they really just react to the wind sensor? So if someone shoots in front of the anemometer with an air rifle, will the blinds go up?
Cool, that’s a real service for every burglar! They go up only if a certain value is exceeded over a period of time. So, no air rifle trick. On the other hand, you could also use it to close motorized windows automatically when it rains.
andimann schrieb:
Burglary. Yes, okay, but that only helps if the burglars actually open windows and doors and don’t come through the window glass (the former being more likely, admittedly). But that is also possible with cameras and any regular NAS for about €150, using built-in functions. With RC2-rated windows and doors, a burglar already has a hard time. With an active alarm system that notifies me, the authorities have enough time to pay the intruder a visit.
Best regards,
Me
S
Sebastian797 Apr 2016 11:49KNX is not just KNX – you also need the corresponding sensors. Most people use it for heating, blind, and lighting control... and for those purposes, the system is far too advanced.
I thought about it for a long time but didn’t find any clear benefits for myself – I’m a fan of having many switches anyway. I have several motion detectors installed (also with dimmed lighting at night), and my blinds are automated and controlled by sun sensors (although only on the west side).
Conventionally, I have quite a bit of wiring, and I would have ended up paying over 20,000 euros to an electrician – probably enough for KNX as well in the end.
The only thing that really annoys me is that I couldn’t implement my lighting at the front door as planned, even though the description from GIRA said otherwise. DALI would have been useful there...
Now there’s an expensive motion detector that can do a lot but only turns the light on and off.
I also have a video system that can notify me based on motion detection. Everything works, of course, but nothing is networked together. That’s not as bad as it’s often made out to be.
I thought about it for a long time but didn’t find any clear benefits for myself – I’m a fan of having many switches anyway. I have several motion detectors installed (also with dimmed lighting at night), and my blinds are automated and controlled by sun sensors (although only on the west side).
Conventionally, I have quite a bit of wiring, and I would have ended up paying over 20,000 euros to an electrician – probably enough for KNX as well in the end.
The only thing that really annoys me is that I couldn’t implement my lighting at the front door as planned, even though the description from GIRA said otherwise. DALI would have been useful there...
Now there’s an expensive motion detector that can do a lot but only turns the light on and off.
I also have a video system that can notify me based on motion detection. Everything works, of course, but nothing is networked together. That’s not as bad as it’s often made out to be.
Sebastian79 schrieb:
But KNX is not just KNX – you also need the appropriate sensors. Most people use it for heating, blind, and lighting control... and for that, the system is actually much too advanced. And this is exactly where the problem lies.
Many buy KNX just to control blinds and lights individually. But practically every new product can do that nowadays.
The true strength, in my opinion, is integrating multiple steps with logical (although when it comes to logic, KNX quickly becomes significantly more expensive) decisions. This is the real masterstroke that only KNX can deliver without compromises.