ᐅ Experience with Shelly Pro Series vs. Homematic IP Wired vs. Bus Wiring Systems
Created on: 24 May 2022 14:58
S
Stravanzer
Hello everyone,
Currently, our shell construction is completed, and soon the electrician will start the rough installation.
We already had a few appointments beforehand where a “smart home” package was offered to me.
The electrician commissioned by the developer offered a complete KNX automation system for a “small additional cost” of about €15,000 (around $16,200).
This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, etc.
The high price discouraged me, so I decided to go with the conventional option.
My plan was/is to automate the following:
a) Operate and automate roller shutters/blinds using Shelly flush-mounted actuators, possibly also controlled by a weather station
b) Control some sockets (especially in our child’s room) using Shelly devices with timed on/off switching
c) Manage lighting through Philips Hue
I am still not completely happy with my decision for conventional wiring.
It bothers me that I have different manufacturers involved, which makes central administration rather unlikely, at least as far as I know. (Is there a way to centralize control for my purposes? If yes, please let me know 🙂 )
Also, the automation would always run over Wi-Fi. I would much prefer a wired solution.
In this context, I looked into the Shelly Pro series.
This is basically the “wired” version, which should be enough for my modest requirements.
Has anyone here worked with these devices or, even better, installed them?
There are some YouTube videos, but mostly single examples, and not very conclusive.
I also really like the Homematic IP wired system. It would allow central control installed in the distribution board (DIN rail). However, here too, there are issues with the connection and required inspections.
The more I think about it, the more I consider having the electrician install bus wiring after all, while I set up the network and server infrastructure myself.
Wiring a patch panel and switch is not a problem for me.
However, I have some doubts about whether I have enough experience to connect the server myself.
Furthermore, there is the challenge of designing and programming the system and routines.
Basically, I am technically inclined and can read into certain things.
I wouldn’t shy away from it but am unsure whether I might be in over my head?!?
Besides, everything would have to be certified by a licensed electrician!
I told the electrician about my plan; he generally has no problem with it, but I would need to install the cables in the basement myself.
He said he wouldn’t connect any hardware he did not supply or install himself, for warranty and liability reasons.
My suspicion is that he makes less profit with this variant and that’s why he said this... and everything would still need approval anyway. Whether this will go smoothly... I have no idea.
For my part, I want everything properly certified, also because of insurance and similar concerns.
My question now:
Is a KNX-based bus solution “overkill” for what I want to do, or are WLAN Shelly devices sufficient to integrate performance data into the FritzBox?
An Ubiquiti PoE ceiling access point is planned/being installed on every floor. So, hopefully, Wi-Fi connection will be sufficient if I end up going with just the flush-mounted Shelly devices.
Maybe some of you have tips, suggestions, or ideas...
I would like to thank you in advance for a constructive discussion.
Best regards,
Tom
Currently, our shell construction is completed, and soon the electrician will start the rough installation.
We already had a few appointments beforehand where a “smart home” package was offered to me.
The electrician commissioned by the developer offered a complete KNX automation system for a “small additional cost” of about €15,000 (around $16,200).
This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, etc.
The high price discouraged me, so I decided to go with the conventional option.
My plan was/is to automate the following:
a) Operate and automate roller shutters/blinds using Shelly flush-mounted actuators, possibly also controlled by a weather station
b) Control some sockets (especially in our child’s room) using Shelly devices with timed on/off switching
c) Manage lighting through Philips Hue
I am still not completely happy with my decision for conventional wiring.
It bothers me that I have different manufacturers involved, which makes central administration rather unlikely, at least as far as I know. (Is there a way to centralize control for my purposes? If yes, please let me know 🙂 )
Also, the automation would always run over Wi-Fi. I would much prefer a wired solution.
In this context, I looked into the Shelly Pro series.
This is basically the “wired” version, which should be enough for my modest requirements.
Has anyone here worked with these devices or, even better, installed them?
There are some YouTube videos, but mostly single examples, and not very conclusive.
I also really like the Homematic IP wired system. It would allow central control installed in the distribution board (DIN rail). However, here too, there are issues with the connection and required inspections.
The more I think about it, the more I consider having the electrician install bus wiring after all, while I set up the network and server infrastructure myself.
Wiring a patch panel and switch is not a problem for me.
However, I have some doubts about whether I have enough experience to connect the server myself.
Furthermore, there is the challenge of designing and programming the system and routines.
Basically, I am technically inclined and can read into certain things.
I wouldn’t shy away from it but am unsure whether I might be in over my head?!?
Besides, everything would have to be certified by a licensed electrician!
I told the electrician about my plan; he generally has no problem with it, but I would need to install the cables in the basement myself.
He said he wouldn’t connect any hardware he did not supply or install himself, for warranty and liability reasons.
My suspicion is that he makes less profit with this variant and that’s why he said this... and everything would still need approval anyway. Whether this will go smoothly... I have no idea.
For my part, I want everything properly certified, also because of insurance and similar concerns.
My question now:
Is a KNX-based bus solution “overkill” for what I want to do, or are WLAN Shelly devices sufficient to integrate performance data into the FritzBox?
An Ubiquiti PoE ceiling access point is planned/being installed on every floor. So, hopefully, Wi-Fi connection will be sufficient if I end up going with just the flush-mounted Shelly devices.
Maybe some of you have tips, suggestions, or ideas...
I would like to thank you in advance for a constructive discussion.
Best regards,
Tom
PMW1993 schrieb:
Do you happen to have blinds as well?Yes, I have them connected with Shelly Plus 2PM (behind the switch inserts).
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Bayernbors20 Nov 2024 08:21PMW1993 schrieb:
For cost reasons, and what other options do I have? I don’t want KNX. I understand the reasons for choosing wireless solutions due to cost concerns, but I doubt that Shelly Pro will actually be a cheaper alternative to KNX. It has significantly higher costs per channel compared to, for example, KNX, and also requires very similar wiring to KNX. Meanwhile, KNX switches in some cases can even be less expensive than conventional switches (e.g. 50 EUR for controlling 8 lights or 4 blinds), meaning the overall price might end up very similar to KNX.
N
nordanney20 Nov 2024 08:59Araknis schrieb:
Then your wireless environment is sufficiently small and uncomplicated. Lucky you.Typical single-family house at my place and a mid-terrace house at my ex’s.Certainly, the approach taken by @sysrun80 is one of the most cost-effective options. For a rental apartment, this would be exactly the path I would suggest or recommend.
For a new build... not so much. Ask yourselves whether you would want or be willing to wait for wireless solutions that are 5, 6, 7 years old—or even older—when buying a house? (Yes, this sounds like fanboy talk—but I would still definitely consider a KNX system from the turn of the millennium—so about 25 years ago—a definite plus!) And we are still not at a wireless standard where I feel confident it will remain compatible, maintainable, secure, and reliable in 10 years’ time—even though Matter seems to be moving in that direction, it is by no means a certainty yet.
Additionally: invest your working hours for planning a wireless or any DIY system into KNX and ETS instead, and then you won’t end up with an extra 25,000€ premium. People always compare the ‘KNX turnkey solution from the electrician’ with ‘DIY however much effort’, even though KNX can also be done partially or fully as a self-install. On online markets or comparable platforms, you can also buy second-hand or mistakenly purchased actuators and sensors (which I would opt for with KNX, but less so with wireless solutions) to reduce costs. In the end, you still won’t reach the price level of @sysrun80, but the difference is significantly smaller than expected and (more than) competitive with virtually all other systems.
For a new build... not so much. Ask yourselves whether you would want or be willing to wait for wireless solutions that are 5, 6, 7 years old—or even older—when buying a house? (Yes, this sounds like fanboy talk—but I would still definitely consider a KNX system from the turn of the millennium—so about 25 years ago—a definite plus!) And we are still not at a wireless standard where I feel confident it will remain compatible, maintainable, secure, and reliable in 10 years’ time—even though Matter seems to be moving in that direction, it is by no means a certainty yet.
Additionally: invest your working hours for planning a wireless or any DIY system into KNX and ETS instead, and then you won’t end up with an extra 25,000€ premium. People always compare the ‘KNX turnkey solution from the electrician’ with ‘DIY however much effort’, even though KNX can also be done partially or fully as a self-install. On online markets or comparable platforms, you can also buy second-hand or mistakenly purchased actuators and sensors (which I would opt for with KNX, but less so with wireless solutions) to reduce costs. In the end, you still won’t reach the price level of @sysrun80, but the difference is significantly smaller than expected and (more than) competitive with virtually all other systems.
N
nordanney20 Nov 2024 10:10Sahitaz schrieb:
For a new build ... no. Just ask yourself if you would want and wait for wireless systems from 5, 6, 7 ... years ago – or even older – when buying a house?Ask yourself whether you needPMW1993 schrieb:
roller shutters, garage door, and exterior lightingto be controlled by KNX or any other wired solution, and whether that would be a deciding factor when buying a house.The original poster mentions only the smallest gadgets that are supposed to be inexpensive, not a complete automation system. Would you still stick with KNX for that?