ᐅ Experience with Shelly Pro Series vs. Homematic IP Wired vs. Bus Wiring Systems
Created on: 24 May 2022 14:58
S
Stravanzer
Hello everyone,
Currently, our shell construction is completed, and soon the electrician will start the rough installation.
We already had a few appointments beforehand where a “smart home” package was offered to me.
The electrician commissioned by the developer offered a complete KNX automation system for a “small additional cost” of about €15,000 (around $16,200).
This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, etc.
The high price discouraged me, so I decided to go with the conventional option.
My plan was/is to automate the following:
a) Operate and automate roller shutters/blinds using Shelly flush-mounted actuators, possibly also controlled by a weather station
b) Control some sockets (especially in our child’s room) using Shelly devices with timed on/off switching
c) Manage lighting through Philips Hue
I am still not completely happy with my decision for conventional wiring.
It bothers me that I have different manufacturers involved, which makes central administration rather unlikely, at least as far as I know. (Is there a way to centralize control for my purposes? If yes, please let me know 🙂 )
Also, the automation would always run over Wi-Fi. I would much prefer a wired solution.
In this context, I looked into the Shelly Pro series.
This is basically the “wired” version, which should be enough for my modest requirements.
Has anyone here worked with these devices or, even better, installed them?
There are some YouTube videos, but mostly single examples, and not very conclusive.
I also really like the Homematic IP wired system. It would allow central control installed in the distribution board (DIN rail). However, here too, there are issues with the connection and required inspections.
The more I think about it, the more I consider having the electrician install bus wiring after all, while I set up the network and server infrastructure myself.
Wiring a patch panel and switch is not a problem for me.
However, I have some doubts about whether I have enough experience to connect the server myself.
Furthermore, there is the challenge of designing and programming the system and routines.
Basically, I am technically inclined and can read into certain things.
I wouldn’t shy away from it but am unsure whether I might be in over my head?!?
Besides, everything would have to be certified by a licensed electrician!
I told the electrician about my plan; he generally has no problem with it, but I would need to install the cables in the basement myself.
He said he wouldn’t connect any hardware he did not supply or install himself, for warranty and liability reasons.
My suspicion is that he makes less profit with this variant and that’s why he said this... and everything would still need approval anyway. Whether this will go smoothly... I have no idea.
For my part, I want everything properly certified, also because of insurance and similar concerns.
My question now:
Is a KNX-based bus solution “overkill” for what I want to do, or are WLAN Shelly devices sufficient to integrate performance data into the FritzBox?
An Ubiquiti PoE ceiling access point is planned/being installed on every floor. So, hopefully, Wi-Fi connection will be sufficient if I end up going with just the flush-mounted Shelly devices.
Maybe some of you have tips, suggestions, or ideas...
I would like to thank you in advance for a constructive discussion.
Best regards,
Tom
Currently, our shell construction is completed, and soon the electrician will start the rough installation.
We already had a few appointments beforehand where a “smart home” package was offered to me.
The electrician commissioned by the developer offered a complete KNX automation system for a “small additional cost” of about €15,000 (around $16,200).
This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, etc.
The high price discouraged me, so I decided to go with the conventional option.
My plan was/is to automate the following:
a) Operate and automate roller shutters/blinds using Shelly flush-mounted actuators, possibly also controlled by a weather station
b) Control some sockets (especially in our child’s room) using Shelly devices with timed on/off switching
c) Manage lighting through Philips Hue
I am still not completely happy with my decision for conventional wiring.
It bothers me that I have different manufacturers involved, which makes central administration rather unlikely, at least as far as I know. (Is there a way to centralize control for my purposes? If yes, please let me know 🙂 )
Also, the automation would always run over Wi-Fi. I would much prefer a wired solution.
In this context, I looked into the Shelly Pro series.
This is basically the “wired” version, which should be enough for my modest requirements.
Has anyone here worked with these devices or, even better, installed them?
There are some YouTube videos, but mostly single examples, and not very conclusive.
I also really like the Homematic IP wired system. It would allow central control installed in the distribution board (DIN rail). However, here too, there are issues with the connection and required inspections.
The more I think about it, the more I consider having the electrician install bus wiring after all, while I set up the network and server infrastructure myself.
Wiring a patch panel and switch is not a problem for me.
However, I have some doubts about whether I have enough experience to connect the server myself.
Furthermore, there is the challenge of designing and programming the system and routines.
Basically, I am technically inclined and can read into certain things.
I wouldn’t shy away from it but am unsure whether I might be in over my head?!?
Besides, everything would have to be certified by a licensed electrician!
I told the electrician about my plan; he generally has no problem with it, but I would need to install the cables in the basement myself.
He said he wouldn’t connect any hardware he did not supply or install himself, for warranty and liability reasons.
My suspicion is that he makes less profit with this variant and that’s why he said this... and everything would still need approval anyway. Whether this will go smoothly... I have no idea.
For my part, I want everything properly certified, also because of insurance and similar concerns.
My question now:
Is a KNX-based bus solution “overkill” for what I want to do, or are WLAN Shelly devices sufficient to integrate performance data into the FritzBox?
An Ubiquiti PoE ceiling access point is planned/being installed on every floor. So, hopefully, Wi-Fi connection will be sufficient if I end up going with just the flush-mounted Shelly devices.
Maybe some of you have tips, suggestions, or ideas...
I would like to thank you in advance for a constructive discussion.
Best regards,
Tom
The question is something everyone can and should ask themselves and answer.
Roller shutters, garage doors, and exterior lighting – later asked about connecting to a weather station and tilt function (I assume window contacts?).
So, it already leans toward automation, where this question should be considered. The answer, however, is up to each individual.
For me – since I have already spent a considerable amount of time working with KNX:
In a new build, where my automation goes beyond a single function (e.g., more than basic blind control), I would choose KNX.
In an existing property, however, the threshold is quite different, as the initial effort involved becomes significantly greater.
Roller shutters, garage doors, and exterior lighting – later asked about connecting to a weather station and tilt function (I assume window contacts?).
So, it already leans toward automation, where this question should be considered. The answer, however, is up to each individual.
For me – since I have already spent a considerable amount of time working with KNX:
In a new build, where my automation goes beyond a single function (e.g., more than basic blind control), I would choose KNX.
In an existing property, however, the threshold is quite different, as the initial effort involved becomes significantly greater.
N
nordanney20 Nov 2024 10:59Sahitaz schrieb:
In a new build, where my automation goes beyond a single discipline (e.g., more than just blind control), I would choose KNX.I agree.Sahitaz schrieb:
In an existing building, however, the threshold is quite different, as the initial effort is completely different.Correct.And to add: For small tasks like lighting or blinds control, using KNX is like using a sledgehammer to crack a nut.
It’s also a matter of the learning curve. With the mentioned “preconfigured modules,” you just click and you get automation that works satisfactorily. With KNX, you first have to configure parameters and then learn some programming.
Sure, you can plan much more, more stable, and future-proof if you know how to do it. But most people simply don’t.
It’s like with analytics in companies: Sure, you can run advanced analyses and evaluations directly on the database using SQL and Python. But the average manager just wants to click around in a graphical interface and that’s all they can do. If you’re lucky, they can also use some Excel—and they don’t add up fields with a calculator to then type the sums back into the total field (yes, I’ve actually seen that).
Sure, you can plan much more, more stable, and future-proof if you know how to do it. But most people simply don’t.
It’s like with analytics in companies: Sure, you can run advanced analyses and evaluations directly on the database using SQL and Python. But the average manager just wants to click around in a graphical interface and that’s all they can do. If you’re lucky, they can also use some Excel—and they don’t add up fields with a calculator to then type the sums back into the total field (yes, I’ve actually seen that).
@Tolentino & @nordanney – I agree with you both.
The comparison with flashy, colorful surfaces is really good and important – especially for typical, run-of-the-mill gadgets.
Ideally, one should have a realistic assessment of their own skills and the desired level of automation beforehand.
The comparison with flashy, colorful surfaces is really good and important – especially for typical, run-of-the-mill gadgets.
Ideally, one should have a realistic assessment of their own skills and the desired level of automation beforehand.
B
Bayernbors20 Nov 2024 17:36PMW1993 schrieb:
the costs are about €1000 additional at this level of automation It seems that the additional costs have not been properly calculated. Direct wiring of each individual consumer to the distribution board would very likely cost more than this amount. It certainly depends on the number of consumers to be controlled, but for a single-family house/semi-detached house, it would be much more than that.
I think you need to calculate the number and type of consumers and then determine the additional cost per consumer and compare it with different systems.