ᐅ Experience with Shelly Pro Series vs. Homematic IP Wired vs. Bus Wiring Systems
Created on: 24 May 2022 14:58
S
Stravanzer
Hello everyone,
Currently, our shell construction is completed, and soon the electrician will start the rough installation.
We already had a few appointments beforehand where a “smart home” package was offered to me.
The electrician commissioned by the developer offered a complete KNX automation system for a “small additional cost” of about €15,000 (around $16,200).
This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, etc.
The high price discouraged me, so I decided to go with the conventional option.
My plan was/is to automate the following:
a) Operate and automate roller shutters/blinds using Shelly flush-mounted actuators, possibly also controlled by a weather station
b) Control some sockets (especially in our child’s room) using Shelly devices with timed on/off switching
c) Manage lighting through Philips Hue
I am still not completely happy with my decision for conventional wiring.
It bothers me that I have different manufacturers involved, which makes central administration rather unlikely, at least as far as I know. (Is there a way to centralize control for my purposes? If yes, please let me know 🙂 )
Also, the automation would always run over Wi-Fi. I would much prefer a wired solution.
In this context, I looked into the Shelly Pro series.
This is basically the “wired” version, which should be enough for my modest requirements.
Has anyone here worked with these devices or, even better, installed them?
There are some YouTube videos, but mostly single examples, and not very conclusive.
I also really like the Homematic IP wired system. It would allow central control installed in the distribution board (DIN rail). However, here too, there are issues with the connection and required inspections.
The more I think about it, the more I consider having the electrician install bus wiring after all, while I set up the network and server infrastructure myself.
Wiring a patch panel and switch is not a problem for me.
However, I have some doubts about whether I have enough experience to connect the server myself.
Furthermore, there is the challenge of designing and programming the system and routines.
Basically, I am technically inclined and can read into certain things.
I wouldn’t shy away from it but am unsure whether I might be in over my head?!?
Besides, everything would have to be certified by a licensed electrician!
I told the electrician about my plan; he generally has no problem with it, but I would need to install the cables in the basement myself.
He said he wouldn’t connect any hardware he did not supply or install himself, for warranty and liability reasons.
My suspicion is that he makes less profit with this variant and that’s why he said this... and everything would still need approval anyway. Whether this will go smoothly... I have no idea.
For my part, I want everything properly certified, also because of insurance and similar concerns.
My question now:
Is a KNX-based bus solution “overkill” for what I want to do, or are WLAN Shelly devices sufficient to integrate performance data into the FritzBox?
An Ubiquiti PoE ceiling access point is planned/being installed on every floor. So, hopefully, Wi-Fi connection will be sufficient if I end up going with just the flush-mounted Shelly devices.
Maybe some of you have tips, suggestions, or ideas...
I would like to thank you in advance for a constructive discussion.
Best regards,
Tom
Currently, our shell construction is completed, and soon the electrician will start the rough installation.
We already had a few appointments beforehand where a “smart home” package was offered to me.
The electrician commissioned by the developer offered a complete KNX automation system for a “small additional cost” of about €15,000 (around $16,200).
This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, etc.
The high price discouraged me, so I decided to go with the conventional option.
My plan was/is to automate the following:
a) Operate and automate roller shutters/blinds using Shelly flush-mounted actuators, possibly also controlled by a weather station
b) Control some sockets (especially in our child’s room) using Shelly devices with timed on/off switching
c) Manage lighting through Philips Hue
I am still not completely happy with my decision for conventional wiring.
It bothers me that I have different manufacturers involved, which makes central administration rather unlikely, at least as far as I know. (Is there a way to centralize control for my purposes? If yes, please let me know 🙂 )
Also, the automation would always run over Wi-Fi. I would much prefer a wired solution.
In this context, I looked into the Shelly Pro series.
This is basically the “wired” version, which should be enough for my modest requirements.
Has anyone here worked with these devices or, even better, installed them?
There are some YouTube videos, but mostly single examples, and not very conclusive.
I also really like the Homematic IP wired system. It would allow central control installed in the distribution board (DIN rail). However, here too, there are issues with the connection and required inspections.
The more I think about it, the more I consider having the electrician install bus wiring after all, while I set up the network and server infrastructure myself.
Wiring a patch panel and switch is not a problem for me.
However, I have some doubts about whether I have enough experience to connect the server myself.
Furthermore, there is the challenge of designing and programming the system and routines.
Basically, I am technically inclined and can read into certain things.
I wouldn’t shy away from it but am unsure whether I might be in over my head?!?
Besides, everything would have to be certified by a licensed electrician!
I told the electrician about my plan; he generally has no problem with it, but I would need to install the cables in the basement myself.
He said he wouldn’t connect any hardware he did not supply or install himself, for warranty and liability reasons.
My suspicion is that he makes less profit with this variant and that’s why he said this... and everything would still need approval anyway. Whether this will go smoothly... I have no idea.
For my part, I want everything properly certified, also because of insurance and similar concerns.
My question now:
Is a KNX-based bus solution “overkill” for what I want to do, or are WLAN Shelly devices sufficient to integrate performance data into the FritzBox?
An Ubiquiti PoE ceiling access point is planned/being installed on every floor. So, hopefully, Wi-Fi connection will be sufficient if I end up going with just the flush-mounted Shelly devices.
Maybe some of you have tips, suggestions, or ideas...
I would like to thank you in advance for a constructive discussion.
Best regards,
Tom
In the end, Loxone is almost never cheaper than KNX. I won’t even get into the oversimplified cost comparison involving the software.
Regarding Wi-Fi: When dealing with a larger number of Wi-Fi devices for a smart home, you’re unlikely to rely on the manufacturer’s basic router like the Fritzbox or similarly simple units. These rarely provide full coverage for an entire single-family house from their usually suboptimal location, reaching all the way to the last Wi-Fi actuator. In this case, it makes sense—if you think it through—to use a proper access point system. Then you disable the router’s Wi-Fi altogether, so its placement becomes irrelevant. Replacing the router also becomes hassle-free.
Regarding Wi-Fi: When dealing with a larger number of Wi-Fi devices for a smart home, you’re unlikely to rely on the manufacturer’s basic router like the Fritzbox or similarly simple units. These rarely provide full coverage for an entire single-family house from their usually suboptimal location, reaching all the way to the last Wi-Fi actuator. In this case, it makes sense—if you think it through—to use a proper access point system. Then you disable the router’s Wi-Fi altogether, so its placement becomes irrelevant. Replacing the router also becomes hassle-free.
That’s true, but not entirely. As an end customer, you have access to the software and can modify it according to your preferences.
With KNX, you need a programmer who charges by the hour, especially when it comes to special requests. Depending on the scope, Loxone can sometimes be more cost-effective.
I know miniservers running at 100% load because the customer created various logics. Now they need a new one. With KNX, I believe it would be quite a challenge to achieve something like that.
With KNX, you need a programmer who charges by the hour, especially when it comes to special requests. Depending on the scope, Loxone can sometimes be more cost-effective.
I know miniservers running at 100% load because the customer created various logics. Now they need a new one. With KNX, I believe it would be quite a challenge to achieve something like that.
These are the typical responses from people who have no real understanding of KNX and only a basic idea about Loxone.
Patricck schrieb:You can do that with KNX as well; anyone can buy the software if they pay for it. Just because you get the Loxone software free of charge doesn’t mean it’s without cost. You simply pay for it elsewhere. That’s what I mean by a flawed comparison. But of course, it sounds good.
That’s true, but not entirely. As an end user, you have access to the software and can customize it according to your preferences.
Patricck schrieb:If you have ETS, you can easily do everything yourself. “Depending on the scope” is also a vague expression. When you compare directly, i.e., equivalent levels of performance, Loxone is almost always more expensive. I don’t need to explain that to you; many people have already gone through this on YouTube. Feel free to check it out.
With KNX you need a programmer who charges by the hour, especially for special requests. And depending on the scope, Loxone can actually be cheaper.
Patricck schrieb:On the one hand, that doesn’t speak well for the Miniserver, and on the other hand, it’s usually the memory card in the Miniserver that fails first, not the entire device. But that doesn’t happen because of “too much logic,” it’s simply a design flaw that the device uses a memory card for this application. With a KNX server, you also have backup options. Restoring a backup doesn’t require an electrician with a master license. Except for a few exceptions, these are all end-user devices. With standard devices, you just load the application from the backup file and everything works like before. But then we are back to my opening statement about lacking knowledge or believing more than knowing.
I know Miniservers running at 100% because the user created various logic setups. Now they need a new one. I think with KNX it would be quite an achievement to get something like that.
Well, we are talking about the first generation model that is over 10 years old.
How to fully utilize it exactly is beyond my knowledge.
Once a backup is made, swapping an SD card only takes a few minutes. Unfortunately, Loxone is not alone with this issue; many devices rely on SD cards, and I know several that have to be sent back to the factory because of it.
My system runs at about 25% capacity for the whole house, and if needed, it’s not a problem to use a second one.
If you are familiar with ETS, but here I am assuming the perspective of the end user.
How to fully utilize it exactly is beyond my knowledge.
Once a backup is made, swapping an SD card only takes a few minutes. Unfortunately, Loxone is not alone with this issue; many devices rely on SD cards, and I know several that have to be sent back to the factory because of it.
My system runs at about 25% capacity for the whole house, and if needed, it’s not a problem to use a second one.
If you are familiar with ETS, but here I am assuming the perspective of the end user.
Oh, come on. The end customer also has to deal with the Loxone software and logic. It works just as well with ETS and is possible for any end customer. If someone can’t manage that, they should really look for a professional and generally stay away from the topic. From experience, even more things tend to go wrong otherwise. I had really stopped trying to convince people about this, but in the end, someone reading it for the first time might still believe it.