ᐅ New Semi-Detached House – Is Investing an Extra $10,000 Worthwhile for a Smart Home?
Created on: 17 Jan 2021 17:11
G
Giggz123
Hello everyone,
we are currently planning the construction of our half of a semi-detached house. Initially, I was considering a KNX solution for home automation, but the reality as homebuilders is catching up with us, and the budget is getting tighter. Due to the plot, we are tied to a construction company that handles all trades (including electrical) with their own staff. The contract is expected to be signed soon.
The construction company seems to have limited expertise regarding smart home systems, so I’m now considering how to best proceed.
At the moment, the plan is for conventional electrical work (about 8,000 EUR), plus additional services for almost 4,000 EUR net to install a LAN connection in every room and reach a total of 100 power outlets and 20 lighting points (there may still be some missing).
We still have about 10,000 EUR left, so the entire (smart) electrical installation can cost around 22,000 EUR. We have also planned 13 roller shutters / blinds, which — for now — will have conventional electrical control.
Requirements - Must Have:
Nice to Have:
Options:
1. Conventional wiring plus standalone radio solutions (this is what we currently have in the rental apartment: Somfy roller shutters, HUE lights, etc.), integrated into a common visualization platform (such as ioBroker and others)
2. Proprietary system, currently the favorite is probably Free@Home with central actuators, allowing a possible later switch to KNX if needed. Alternatively, Homematic Wired might be an option.
3a. KNX with the must-haves and preparation (cabling) for nice-to-haves / as much as possible
3b. KNX with must-haves, nice-to-haves via radio solutions / gateways, integrated into a common visualization (ioBroker and others)
I’ve read a lot about this but somehow keep going in circles...
Do you have any advice on how to best approach this now? Should I create a room schedule and request various offers for options 2 and 3? Should I look for a qualified system integrator / smart home expert who can offer both options 2 and 3? Or is this basically unrealistic with the given budget, and I should focus on option 1?
Although construction doesn’t start until summer, if I want to try to contract the electrical trade elsewhere, I only have about 4 weeks left.
I am not completely ruling out KNX and could also imagine doing some work myself. Has anyone used a solution where they hired a planner, had the control cabinet assembled and shipped, then had the construction company’s electrician install all the wiring, and finally configured everything themselves?
Many thanks in advance!
we are currently planning the construction of our half of a semi-detached house. Initially, I was considering a KNX solution for home automation, but the reality as homebuilders is catching up with us, and the budget is getting tighter. Due to the plot, we are tied to a construction company that handles all trades (including electrical) with their own staff. The contract is expected to be signed soon.
The construction company seems to have limited expertise regarding smart home systems, so I’m now considering how to best proceed.
At the moment, the plan is for conventional electrical work (about 8,000 EUR), plus additional services for almost 4,000 EUR net to install a LAN connection in every room and reach a total of 100 power outlets and 20 lighting points (there may still be some missing).
We still have about 10,000 EUR left, so the entire (smart) electrical installation can cost around 22,000 EUR. We have also planned 13 roller shutters / blinds, which — for now — will have conventional electrical control.
Requirements - Must Have:
- Lighting:
- Central control of lights (preferably all, if necessary by floor, room, or selected areas); partial dimming
- Shading:
- Central control of roller shutters / blinds with automated shading
- Power:
- Make approximately 10+ power outlets switchable
Nice to Have:
- Avoid residual current devices (RCDs) if justifiable via smart home (I do not intend to actively control heating)
- Connection to controlled residential ventilation system
- Integration of voice control
- Window contacts
- Visualization
- Presence detectors
- Sonos integration
- Intercom system integration (Doorbird, Busch Jäger Welcome)
- Alarm system functionality (via presence detectors / sensors, possibly also a proprietary system, e.g. Busch Secure@Home)
Options:
1. Conventional wiring plus standalone radio solutions (this is what we currently have in the rental apartment: Somfy roller shutters, HUE lights, etc.), integrated into a common visualization platform (such as ioBroker and others)
2. Proprietary system, currently the favorite is probably Free@Home with central actuators, allowing a possible later switch to KNX if needed. Alternatively, Homematic Wired might be an option.
3a. KNX with the must-haves and preparation (cabling) for nice-to-haves / as much as possible
3b. KNX with must-haves, nice-to-haves via radio solutions / gateways, integrated into a common visualization (ioBroker and others)
I’ve read a lot about this but somehow keep going in circles...
Do you have any advice on how to best approach this now? Should I create a room schedule and request various offers for options 2 and 3? Should I look for a qualified system integrator / smart home expert who can offer both options 2 and 3? Or is this basically unrealistic with the given budget, and I should focus on option 1?
Although construction doesn’t start until summer, if I want to try to contract the electrical trade elsewhere, I only have about 4 weeks left.
I am not completely ruling out KNX and could also imagine doing some work myself. Has anyone used a solution where they hired a planner, had the control cabinet assembled and shipped, then had the construction company’s electrician install all the wiring, and finally configured everything themselves?
Many thanks in advance!
R
RotorMotor10 Apr 2021 13:55RE-1407 schrieb:
What would be a common number of switches for a house of this size? I am currently planning with 3 switches in the bedroom (door, bedside tables), 1 in each children’s room, 2 in the open living area (scenes + control center), 1 at the entrance (away mode), 1 for guests, and that’s about it. So around 9 in total.
However, I already have the goal of this thread title in mind: smart + $10k additional cost.
But I’m afraid that reaching the $10k won’t be possible.
There isn’t really a typical KNX user, as that would contradict what KNX is all about. It is designed to cover all needs, from a small shed to a skyscraper.
However, this is directly at odds with skipping door/window sensors and environmental controls.
From experience, more is not always better in this case. The traditional approach of putting a switch at every doorframe originated from the constraints of conventional wiring: “You need a way to switch the light.” With KNX, this is unnecessary and is classic overengineering behind the walls. Of course, you can fill in the boxes later, but it’s smarter not to have to drill the holes in the first place.
RE-1407 schrieb:I recognize that mindset from customers and builders during initial discussions, and it usually settles down. It’s not really about the costs for you. As I mentioned before, I understand — the money has to go out.
I’d rather have one switch too many than one too few; the cost is only a minor factor when you relate it to the price of the house.
However, this is directly at odds with skipping door/window sensors and environmental controls.
RE-1407 schrieb:Specifically regarding this statement:
I’d rather have one switch too many than one too few.
From experience, more is not always better in this case. The traditional approach of putting a switch at every doorframe originated from the constraints of conventional wiring: “You need a way to switch the light.” With KNX, this is unnecessary and is classic overengineering behind the walls. Of course, you can fill in the boxes later, but it’s smarter not to have to drill the holes in the first place.
RE-1407 schrieb:About one third, at most half. You simply don’t need more, even accounting for guests, changing circumstances, or growing families. Some realize this earlier, others later.
What would be a common number of switches for a house this size?
untergasse4310 Apr 2021 16:11I usually ask what the point of KNX is if the system is operated in a completely "conventional" way, meaning there is a separate button for each blind and each light.
Well, if the contractor doesn’t plan something and can’t make the most profit from it, they simply "don’t know" it. Specifically, MDT is completely uncompetitive in terms of price, with almost all online retailers selling below their regular cost price. The electrician then thinks that’s a bad idea. Understandable from their perspective, but disappointing from the customer’s point of view.
K1300S schrieb:
Well, settings can vary a lot. Our electrician only "knows" and installs Gira. MDT is simply not part of the traditional electrical industry, so it was immediately dismissed by him.
Well, if the contractor doesn’t plan something and can’t make the most profit from it, they simply "don’t know" it. Specifically, MDT is completely uncompetitive in terms of price, with almost all online retailers selling below their regular cost price. The electrician then thinks that’s a bad idea. Understandable from their perspective, but disappointing from the customer’s point of view.
untergasse43 schrieb:
what’s the point of having KNX if the installation is operated in a completely “conventional” way anyway,I often wonder that myself, and so do many new homeowners. Often it turns out that they simply don’t know any other approach and are fully convinced that it has to be that way. After all, they feel the need to always have (supposedly) full control.Something like: “people tend to fear what they don’t know…”
Usually, most are open-minded and recognize the potential and possibilities once you show and explain them. But there are also those resistant to advice who end up with the familiar solution dressed up and charged at a higher price. What can you do—the customer is always king.
Mycraft schrieb:
I wonder about that myself, and new homeowners do as well from time to time. Often it turns out that people just don’t know any other approach and are completely convinced that this is how it must be done. Because you always have to maintain (or at least think you have) full control.
As the saying goes: "What the farmer doesn’t know..."
Usually, most people are open to new ideas and recognize the potential and options once you show and explain them. But there are also those resistant to advice, who then get the familiar setup in a fancy form for more money. What can you do – the customer is always king.I chose KNX in particular so that I can remain free to work with different manufacturers in the future and to simplify current workflows that bother me (lower all the blinds at once, control temperature and ventilation, manage exterior lighting, etc. ... there are still several things to program concerning electrical functions!). A conventional wiring system would certainly have been sufficient for now, but I wanted to keep the option open to program scenes later on to minimize unnecessary trips.When deciding on KNX, cost was the very last thing I considered – these expenses are marginal compared to other investments. I actually left out window contacts because I didn’t see a purpose for them; besides, my neighbors are police officers 🙂 , so I also thought long and hard about an alarm system.
The weather station is debatable, but again, I didn’t see a need. We will probably include it at some point.
Regarding the switches: there are not 32 switches in total, but 9 room controllers and 13 switches (single/double), making 22 altogether. Originally, there were only 32 switches without room controllers; we converted 10 of those switches into 9 controllers.
Room controllers:
2 x living room
1 x dining room
1 x kitchen
1 x guest toilet
1 x ground floor hallway
1 x children’s room (his)
1 x children’s room (hers)
1 x bedroom/walk-in closet
Switches:
1 x staircase
1 x exit switch (all lights off / all blinds down, etc.)
1 x guest room
1 x office
1 x utility room
1 x storage room
1 x garage
1 x attic
1 x upper floor hallway start
1 x upper floor hallway end
1 x central upper floor blinds down
2 x bedside "panic" switches
RE-1407 schrieb:
to be able to freely choose between manufacturers in the future and to simplify currently inconvenient workflows (lower all roller shutters at once, control temperature and ventilation, manage exterior lighting, etc...) Yes, in this case and with your choice of the KNX protocol as a means to an end, you have done everything correctly. However, feel free to start a new thread about your electrical system where everyone can join the discussion. As you have confirmed yourself, you are quite far from the topic of this thread.