ᐅ New Semi-Detached House – Is Investing an Extra $10,000 Worthwhile for a Smart Home?

RE-1407 schrieb:

But here, selective points are taken out of context and an attempt is made to discredit something.

No, that’s not the case. From a professional perspective, I have pointed out where there are issues and where you are losing money, and I believe I have commented on almost every point. Unfortunately, I didn’t find any cherry-picking. Rather, it’s quite standard. It would be interesting to see a complete list—I’m almost certain that there are considerable savings possible without sacrificing comfort or even getting more value for the money. But it seems you don’t have that.

With your rather simple installation, you can clearly see why KNX is perceived as expensive. For a 17K (17,000) markup, apparently you get almost nothing at all. Of course, it is difficult to say anything precise based on the sparse information, but it reads as if the basic switch functions were implemented 1:1 in KNX and essential parts were left out. You confirmed this yourself.

RE-1407 schrieb:

As far as I remember, our alarm system has nothing to do with KNX. It should be on a separate circuit,

So something proprietary. Possibly connected to KNX via a gateway. That can be done. It’s also possible that the cameras mentioned are part of it, which would help explain the price. Because 3.5K (3,500) is quite high. Simple VDS-certified systems without cameras are available from 1.5/2K (1,500/2,000).

RE-1407 schrieb:

Referring to the title, I would argue that nowadays, 10K (10,000) won’t get you far unless you limit yourself or cut out what’s not strictly necessary (which we also did with the weather station, etc.).

Which will most likely turn out to be a mistake because you are depriving the house of certain fundamental functions. Well, you can retrofit later. However, you could just as well reconsider the concept and do it properly from the start. But yes, that is your decision.

RE-1407 schrieb:

I am not the typical “smart home installer,” as I don’t use or want to use many of the available options, or I reserve them for later.

Yes, that comes across very clearly. Although under the term “typical smart home installer,” everyone understands something different, and there is a wide spectrum from basic setups to luxury systems.

What is smart? What is home?
There is no such thing as a smart home today. “Smart,” by definition, would be a self-thinking house that adapts to new situations.
That does not exist.
What does exist is an automated house. A house that takes tasks off the resident’s hands. A house that responds in this or that way to situations predefined by the resident. This is often called a smart home. I don’t like that term. When I talk about our electrical system (for those interested), I avoid that term and rather refer to it as a bus system. I try to explain that all components can communicate with each other. That I can adjust the behavior at any time according to my needs. A switch that turns the lights on today might open the garage door tomorrow. My favorite example: the shading system closes the external venetian blinds. I want to go outside and open the door. The blinds go up so I can exit. I didn’t press a switch. I’m outside and close the door behind me. A contact sensor signals the door is not closed (the reed contact can distinguish between “closed” and “shut”). That’s why the blinds stay up until I come back inside and don’t lock me out. I’m back inside, close the door, the reed contact signals exactly that, and the blinds return to the position they had before I opened the door. I still haven’t pressed a switch. But I can also set it so that when the patio doors open, the motion sensors are deactivated, and the garden lights switch to permanent on, if I want. This can always be expanded further.
That’s what I find smart. Even though I don’t like the term, as I said.

We have:
- Weather station
- Two concealed contact sensors in the frame for every window/door that can be opened; the sliding door to the garden only needs one
- 11 MDT glass switches
- 2 MDT control panels
- 10 MDT presence detectors
- 5 Steinel outdoor motion sensors—one on each facade side and one at the driveway
- 4 LED standing lights controlled by motion sensors along the 30m (100ft) path
- About 15 switchable power outlets
- 16 external venetian blinds/roller shutters
- Preparation for an awning above the terrace
- Two garden circuits with three switchable fire pits
- Suitable actuators in the distribution board
- About 25 recessed ceiling lights (commonly called spots), mostly DALI dimmable
- 4 recessed lights on the stairs at knee height
- A mix of DALI and KNX dimming actuators for all lighting
- 4 cameras plus NVR
- Door audio/video station with an additional intercom on the upper floor. Video call on the mobile phone, door opening via mobile phone
- Small MDT visualization panel
- Two nearly full 24-port keystone patch panels
- At least two CAT6a outlets and CAT7 cabling in every relevant room
- Preparation for six access points in the ceiling

I’m sure I forgot some things.

That was very expensive. That’s true. But all of this—even remotely done with conventional wiring—would have been far more expensive.
And one thing is clear: nobody really needs it!
But I quote Deichkind:

Unfortunately cool...

I don’t find 17K (17,000) to be too bad. For the 114 sqm (1,227 sq ft) apartment, we paid an extra 10K (10,000) just for the wiring, plus 4K (4,000) for actuators, motion detectors, and so forth. Most of the equipment is from MDT because I really like the manufacturer with their extensive applications and reasonable prices. We couldn’t use any more spotlights, so a lot was planned with light coves plus direct lighting and track lighting. The mix is what counts. Direct light for working and indirect warm white light for relaxing. Check out the Molto Luce flush-mounted track lighting; we use the surface-mounted version, and both the fixtures and quality are really great. Additionally, you have two separate phases for dimming or switching.

We don’t have any window contacts because we bought the apartment while it was still a shell. These will be retrofitted using EnOcean technology with a Weinzierl interface. No problem at all.

We do all the programming ourselves.

Even in the apartment, more LAN ports were included. There are duplex ports in every room, so 3 times 2 plus 2 more in the living room. A total of 8 LAN cables or 5 ports for a 4-room apartment. Still, Wi-Fi is becoming more widespread, so you don’t need as many LAN sockets.

But the fewer LAN ports there are, the more important the placement of the LAN sockets becomes. I tend to prefer having a few extra, as retrofitting is difficult.

AllThumbs schrieb:

Ah, okay. I thought it would build on that since you mentioned presence detectors. So these are dedicated solely for the alarm system?

RE-1407 schrieb:

If I remember correctly (the discussions were almost a year ago), presence detectors and the alarm system are supposed to work together—don’t ask me how the electrical setup will manage that.
I can’t confirm the VdS certification with 100% certainty; I only read that the battery is VdS certified.

For a “real” alarm system, or to put it professionally, an intrusion detection system, dedicated sensors are used. These sensors might be connected to the bus or external systems only through a gateway and usually in read-only mode. Such gateways work very well with systems from Telenot, ABB, or Indexa, allowing the alarm sensors to also be used for comfort functions. If you are DIY-ing a KNX presence detector solution, only the battery might have some form of certification. VdS certification is mostly irrelevant here, since a compliant system must not allow external influence (e.g., via the bus). Alarm systems typically have their own communication bus. I rarely encounter a “real” VdS-certified system in a private home; usually it’s VdS Home or something based on VdS standards.

For residential use, I’m a big fan of the ABB GM/A or the Indexa 9000. The ABB connects directly to the bus, while the Indexa has a very good KNX gateway. What system are you having installed, @RE-1407?

Trying to build an intrusion detection system solely around presence detectors is, in my opinion, a bad idea. Once they trigger, the intruder is usually already inside and no longer needs much time, or you might trigger a fuse to trip, which would quickly bring peace to the house.

How about having a separate topic for alarm systems? I don’t really see the connection with this thread.