ᐅ New Semi-Detached House – Is Investing an Extra $10,000 Worthwhile for a Smart Home?
Created on: 17 Jan 2021 17:11
G
Giggz123
Hello everyone,
we are currently planning the construction of our half of a semi-detached house. Initially, I was considering a KNX solution for home automation, but the reality as homebuilders is catching up with us, and the budget is getting tighter. Due to the plot, we are tied to a construction company that handles all trades (including electrical) with their own staff. The contract is expected to be signed soon.
The construction company seems to have limited expertise regarding smart home systems, so I’m now considering how to best proceed.
At the moment, the plan is for conventional electrical work (about 8,000 EUR), plus additional services for almost 4,000 EUR net to install a LAN connection in every room and reach a total of 100 power outlets and 20 lighting points (there may still be some missing).
We still have about 10,000 EUR left, so the entire (smart) electrical installation can cost around 22,000 EUR. We have also planned 13 roller shutters / blinds, which — for now — will have conventional electrical control.
Requirements - Must Have:
Nice to Have:
Options:
1. Conventional wiring plus standalone radio solutions (this is what we currently have in the rental apartment: Somfy roller shutters, HUE lights, etc.), integrated into a common visualization platform (such as ioBroker and others)
2. Proprietary system, currently the favorite is probably Free@Home with central actuators, allowing a possible later switch to KNX if needed. Alternatively, Homematic Wired might be an option.
3a. KNX with the must-haves and preparation (cabling) for nice-to-haves / as much as possible
3b. KNX with must-haves, nice-to-haves via radio solutions / gateways, integrated into a common visualization (ioBroker and others)
I’ve read a lot about this but somehow keep going in circles...
Do you have any advice on how to best approach this now? Should I create a room schedule and request various offers for options 2 and 3? Should I look for a qualified system integrator / smart home expert who can offer both options 2 and 3? Or is this basically unrealistic with the given budget, and I should focus on option 1?
Although construction doesn’t start until summer, if I want to try to contract the electrical trade elsewhere, I only have about 4 weeks left.
I am not completely ruling out KNX and could also imagine doing some work myself. Has anyone used a solution where they hired a planner, had the control cabinet assembled and shipped, then had the construction company’s electrician install all the wiring, and finally configured everything themselves?
Many thanks in advance!
we are currently planning the construction of our half of a semi-detached house. Initially, I was considering a KNX solution for home automation, but the reality as homebuilders is catching up with us, and the budget is getting tighter. Due to the plot, we are tied to a construction company that handles all trades (including electrical) with their own staff. The contract is expected to be signed soon.
The construction company seems to have limited expertise regarding smart home systems, so I’m now considering how to best proceed.
At the moment, the plan is for conventional electrical work (about 8,000 EUR), plus additional services for almost 4,000 EUR net to install a LAN connection in every room and reach a total of 100 power outlets and 20 lighting points (there may still be some missing).
We still have about 10,000 EUR left, so the entire (smart) electrical installation can cost around 22,000 EUR. We have also planned 13 roller shutters / blinds, which — for now — will have conventional electrical control.
Requirements - Must Have:
- Lighting:
- Central control of lights (preferably all, if necessary by floor, room, or selected areas); partial dimming
- Shading:
- Central control of roller shutters / blinds with automated shading
- Power:
- Make approximately 10+ power outlets switchable
Nice to Have:
- Avoid residual current devices (RCDs) if justifiable via smart home (I do not intend to actively control heating)
- Connection to controlled residential ventilation system
- Integration of voice control
- Window contacts
- Visualization
- Presence detectors
- Sonos integration
- Intercom system integration (Doorbird, Busch Jäger Welcome)
- Alarm system functionality (via presence detectors / sensors, possibly also a proprietary system, e.g. Busch Secure@Home)
Options:
1. Conventional wiring plus standalone radio solutions (this is what we currently have in the rental apartment: Somfy roller shutters, HUE lights, etc.), integrated into a common visualization platform (such as ioBroker and others)
2. Proprietary system, currently the favorite is probably Free@Home with central actuators, allowing a possible later switch to KNX if needed. Alternatively, Homematic Wired might be an option.
3a. KNX with the must-haves and preparation (cabling) for nice-to-haves / as much as possible
3b. KNX with must-haves, nice-to-haves via radio solutions / gateways, integrated into a common visualization (ioBroker and others)
I’ve read a lot about this but somehow keep going in circles...
Do you have any advice on how to best approach this now? Should I create a room schedule and request various offers for options 2 and 3? Should I look for a qualified system integrator / smart home expert who can offer both options 2 and 3? Or is this basically unrealistic with the given budget, and I should focus on option 1?
Although construction doesn’t start until summer, if I want to try to contract the electrical trade elsewhere, I only have about 4 weeks left.
I am not completely ruling out KNX and could also imagine doing some work myself. Has anyone used a solution where they hired a planner, had the control cabinet assembled and shipped, then had the construction company’s electrician install all the wiring, and finally configured everything themselves?
Many thanks in advance!
A
AllThumbs28 Jan 2021 14:42squier23 schrieb:
(electric roller shutters 510.- each, conventionally wired, not centralized!). What would be a fair price? For us, it was about 380 euros on average. I already thought that was quite expensive.
R
RotorMotor28 Jan 2021 21:11Giggz123 schrieb:
@RotorMotor please feel free to share the results. I would like to talk to the electrician from our construction company soon. The question is whether the pricing will work out. If I roughly estimate based on what I’ve seen: planning around 2,500 EUR (?), distribution board including everything about 5,000 EUR (?), that doesn’t leave much for the electrician, and a (at least basic) ETS version is also needed. Hmm.So, I have now spoken with the general contractor’s electrician.
He doesn’t have much experience with KNX but sounded very friendly and open to new things.
I think we can get him to lay a few green bus cables and some extra copper for sockets and heat sources.
However, I believe I will need to get involved in the planning myself, and I actually want to.
Even though the K-U-F here would probably call for an integrator, I think this will work out.
In the worst case, a few sockets won’t be individually switchable or measurable.
I don’t really have that many use cases at the moment anyway.
So for the wiring post, I am currently estimating about 2,000 EUR extra.
I have already roughly planned the distribution board myself, or rather selected components, and will probably have it planned and built externally.
At the moment, I expect around 5,000 EUR for KNX components and 4,000 EUR for the rest (planning, fabrication, enclosure, small parts).
In addition, there are KNX components outside the distribution board like switches, occupancy sensors, and other sensors.
Currently, items worth about 5,000 EUR are on the shopping list.
For ETS, I am currently leaning strongly towards the Inside version.
Not only because it is cheaper but also due to usability on Linux.
Maybe we’ll be lucky and the version 6 will be released in time.
Adding up the numbers, it probably won’t stay at 10,000 EUR for me.
There is still saving potential with the number of socket actuators; I initially planned 26 channels, although I will probably keep many on constant power for now and don’t yet know exactly what I want to switch and measure with them.
I want to plan this in more detail before placing orders.
There are also some dimmer actuators, which are not cheap, and at least one occupancy sensor in every room currently.
I have been very economical with switches so far (8 switches, 18 occupancy sensors).
RotorMotor schrieb:
Although he has little experience with KNX, he sounded very friendly and open to new things. That’s already a positive sign – and unfortunately quite rare.
RotorMotor schrieb:
Even though the K-U-F here would definitely call for an integrator, I think it will work out. It only calls for an integrator if there is obviously no knowledge or understanding of such technical topics.
RotorMotor schrieb:
For wiring, I am currently estimating about 2,000€ extra. I consider that far too low.
RotorMotor schrieb:
Currently, I’m estimating around 5,000€ for KNX components and 4,000€ for everything else (planning, installation, cabinet, small parts). That might be more accurate, but it does not correspond with the additional cost for wiring.
RotorMotor schrieb:
Right now, parts worth roughly 5,000€ are on the shopping list. Noted.
RotorMotor schrieb:
For the ETS, I am currently strongly leaning towards Inside. I would reconsider. The Inside version is based on a different foundation and thus runs mobile devices as clients, but it’s actually quite different from the “full” ETS. If in doubt, I would buy ETS 5 Pro and at worst upgrade to version 6 later. Unless you’re sure that the Lite version will be sufficient.
RotorMotor schrieb:
From my point of view, savings potential is still possible with the number of “socket actuators.” I’ve initially planned 26 channels, although I will probably connect many to constant power first and don’t yet know exactly what I want to switch and measure with them. You can certainly save on actuator channels initially and upgrade gradually, but the wiring must support that from the start.
R
RotorMotor29 Jan 2021 07:13K1300S schrieb:
I consider that clearly too low. Even if the entire "budget" for light switches, roller shutter controls, room thermostats, and others also goes into wiring?
But yes, it may well be that in the end it will be around 2,000 (approximately 2k) more for additional network outlets, EV charging station preparation, outdoor lighting, and similar items.
I will mark everything clearly again this weekend and compare it with the quote.
So that would be 7K instead of 2K. That should be more realistic, but then you won’t have any light switches. 😀 Of course, it also depends a bit on the level of equipment, but assume, for example, that network outlets (duplex) cost around 200 EUR each. You can quickly add up ten of those, which already uses up the entire 2K budget.
@RotorMotor
Where is the construction site?
The budget aspect and being open to new ideas sounds good so far. Your approach with fewer switching actuators also seems reasonable at first. What’s important is to establish the right prerequisites. So at least 3 separately switchable circuits per room going to the distribution board. These should initially be connected via terminal strips, and all sockets should be powered continuously. Later on, you can rewire them as needed.
And of course, bus cables at every corner and everywhere you could possibly imagine sensors or actuators (plan so that expansion is still possible in 10 years). Don’t forget empty conduit boxes. Installing the bus cable alongside the NYM cable is really no extra effort and practically cost-neutral.
Don’t plan too many switching points; 8 to 10 for a typical house is already more than you usually end up needing.
However, the distribution board itself (depending on size and equipment) could easily cost around 2K (rather more, based on experience).
Where is the construction site?
The budget aspect and being open to new ideas sounds good so far. Your approach with fewer switching actuators also seems reasonable at first. What’s important is to establish the right prerequisites. So at least 3 separately switchable circuits per room going to the distribution board. These should initially be connected via terminal strips, and all sockets should be powered continuously. Later on, you can rewire them as needed.
And of course, bus cables at every corner and everywhere you could possibly imagine sensors or actuators (plan so that expansion is still possible in 10 years). Don’t forget empty conduit boxes. Installing the bus cable alongside the NYM cable is really no extra effort and practically cost-neutral.
Don’t plan too many switching points; 8 to 10 for a typical house is already more than you usually end up needing.
However, the distribution board itself (depending on size and equipment) could easily cost around 2K (rather more, based on experience).