Good morning everyone,
I came across this forum through the kitchen and electrical sections and hope you can assist me/us with our first own place.
Since yesterday, we have been renting a 75sqm (807 sq ft) apartment that was renovated three years ago in winter without heating (this might be relevant).
Yesterday, we removed the wallpaper in two rooms and what did we find... mold.
Office:
- Mold stains on the left and right side next to the roller shutter box. Quite dark already.
- Bottom left corner of the room.
Bedroom:
On the window seals at the bottom left and right (the plaster between the window opening and the window frame), on the plaster. Not very dark yet.
Photos might follow later.
As mentioned, the house was renovated three or four years ago.
This happened in winter without heating, so moisture naturally got out of control.
Since then, a younger couple with a child lived there. They were "clean," really good people whom we get along with well.
No one mentioned mold, and in my opinion, the child appeared healthy.
The office (then nursery) was filled with furniture (only one window).
In the bedroom (also one window) there was a wardrobe in the middle of the room as well.
The landlord was very cooperative and felt embarrassed. He wanted to take care of it right away and offered to just paint over it?
His wife mentioned that the previous tenants often only ventilated by leaving the window tilted open, so no proper cross-ventilation.
Maybe it is a combination of the renovation and inadequate ventilation?
Or just poor workmanship, as the saying goes... which I find hard to believe considering the tenants, but you never know, and it would be very frustrating for them too. :-/
The descriptions are admittedly sparse... but if things go as I’ve unfortunately seen several times this year (one tends to get quite pessimistic quickly), then that’s not good.
It would be great if anyone has tips on how to determine the severity of the mold (e.g., tapping the wall to see if it’s also black inside?).
Or who could help with an assessment...
Best regards and many thanks in advance,
Daenni
I came across this forum through the kitchen and electrical sections and hope you can assist me/us with our first own place.
Since yesterday, we have been renting a 75sqm (807 sq ft) apartment that was renovated three years ago in winter without heating (this might be relevant).
Yesterday, we removed the wallpaper in two rooms and what did we find... mold.
Office:
- Mold stains on the left and right side next to the roller shutter box. Quite dark already.
- Bottom left corner of the room.
Bedroom:
On the window seals at the bottom left and right (the plaster between the window opening and the window frame), on the plaster. Not very dark yet.
Photos might follow later.
As mentioned, the house was renovated three or four years ago.
This happened in winter without heating, so moisture naturally got out of control.
Since then, a younger couple with a child lived there. They were "clean," really good people whom we get along with well.
No one mentioned mold, and in my opinion, the child appeared healthy.
The office (then nursery) was filled with furniture (only one window).
In the bedroom (also one window) there was a wardrobe in the middle of the room as well.
The landlord was very cooperative and felt embarrassed. He wanted to take care of it right away and offered to just paint over it?
His wife mentioned that the previous tenants often only ventilated by leaving the window tilted open, so no proper cross-ventilation.
Maybe it is a combination of the renovation and inadequate ventilation?
Or just poor workmanship, as the saying goes... which I find hard to believe considering the tenants, but you never know, and it would be very frustrating for them too. :-/
The descriptions are admittedly sparse... but if things go as I’ve unfortunately seen several times this year (one tends to get quite pessimistic quickly), then that’s not good.
It would be great if anyone has tips on how to determine the severity of the mold (e.g., tapping the wall to see if it’s also black inside?).
Or who could help with an assessment...
Best regards and many thanks in advance,
Daenni
A
Andreas Euler2 Dec 2009 19:12Hello Daenni,
first of all, regarding your question:
You don’t need to determine how deep the mold penetrates; this is quite clear. Mold growing on a plastered surface is always detectable deeper inside as well. To achieve a truly effective remediation, the affected plaster must be completely removed, including about 50 cm (20 inches) of the surrounding undamaged wall surface. This means that if you have visible mold on the wall, for example behind a cabinet, approximately 20 x 20 cm (8 x 8 inches) in size, then the plaster should be removed over an area of about 120 x 120 cm (47 x 47 inches) and the wall rebuilt.
Simply painting over it does absolutely nothing. Even killing the mold with a mold remover is not sufficient, as the spores will still be present and can immediately return under suitable conditions without any waiting period.
A specialist in indoor mold issues can assist with the inspection.
When it comes to remediation, there are many details to consider. For larger areas, remediation must only be carried out by a certified mold remediation specialist.
However, it is much more important to identify the cause of the mold growth. This could be thermal bridges (window reveals) or improperly placed furniture (cabinets against exterior walls with too little clearance), among other things. These causes can only be determined through an on-site inspection, and possibly thermography should be carried out.
I hope I was able to answer your question somewhat. If not, we can also have another call.
Best regards,
Andreas
first of all, regarding your question:
You don’t need to determine how deep the mold penetrates; this is quite clear. Mold growing on a plastered surface is always detectable deeper inside as well. To achieve a truly effective remediation, the affected plaster must be completely removed, including about 50 cm (20 inches) of the surrounding undamaged wall surface. This means that if you have visible mold on the wall, for example behind a cabinet, approximately 20 x 20 cm (8 x 8 inches) in size, then the plaster should be removed over an area of about 120 x 120 cm (47 x 47 inches) and the wall rebuilt.
Simply painting over it does absolutely nothing. Even killing the mold with a mold remover is not sufficient, as the spores will still be present and can immediately return under suitable conditions without any waiting period.
A specialist in indoor mold issues can assist with the inspection.
When it comes to remediation, there are many details to consider. For larger areas, remediation must only be carried out by a certified mold remediation specialist.
However, it is much more important to identify the cause of the mold growth. This could be thermal bridges (window reveals) or improperly placed furniture (cabinets against exterior walls with too little clearance), among other things. These causes can only be determined through an on-site inspection, and possibly thermography should be carried out.
I hope I was able to answer your question somewhat. If not, we can also have another call.
Best regards,
Andreas
Thank you for the reply!
Well, this makes me less optimistic.
The explanation given was:
At the time of renovation (the landlord’s childhood home, where now also the son lives) during winter, there was moisture in the plaster. Shortly afterward, tenants moved in, and a fairly dense wallpaper (I found it very thick) was applied over it, and then the rest happened.
The wallpaper initially showed signs of mold, which were removed... after that, there were no issues for the following 3 years.
We are now stripping off the wallpaper and finding the "old" layer underneath...
Cost estimate for an inspection by a very kind lady: approximately 350 Euros...
Oh man...
Well, this makes me less optimistic.
The explanation given was:
At the time of renovation (the landlord’s childhood home, where now also the son lives) during winter, there was moisture in the plaster. Shortly afterward, tenants moved in, and a fairly dense wallpaper (I found it very thick) was applied over it, and then the rest happened.
The wallpaper initially showed signs of mold, which were removed... after that, there were no issues for the following 3 years.
We are now stripping off the wallpaper and finding the "old" layer underneath...
Cost estimate for an inspection by a very kind lady: approximately 350 Euros...
Oh man...
A
Andreas Euler10 Dec 2009 21:16Hello,
sorry for the delayed response.
As I mentioned before, based on the pictures it looks like mold growth at a thermal bridge. To be more precise, a thermographic survey should be conducted now that it is cold outside.
To remove the mold permanently, as described above, the plaster needs to be removed. However, the mold will return if the thermal bridge is not addressed.
To provide more accurate information, an on-site inspection and additional measurements are essential.
Please contact a local expert or certified assessor, they will surely be able to assist you.
Best regards, Andreas
sorry for the delayed response.
As I mentioned before, based on the pictures it looks like mold growth at a thermal bridge. To be more precise, a thermographic survey should be conducted now that it is cold outside.
To remove the mold permanently, as described above, the plaster needs to be removed. However, the mold will return if the thermal bridge is not addressed.
To provide more accurate information, an on-site inspection and additional measurements are essential.
Please contact a local expert or certified assessor, they will surely be able to assist you.
Best regards, Andreas
A
Andreas Euler11 Dec 2009 07:58Hello Saladin,
A thermal bridge (often mistakenly called a cold bridge) is an area in the building components of a structure through which heat is conducted to the outside more quickly than through other parts.
This means that the interior surfaces of the wall in these areas cool down more, so the warm, moisture-saturated indoor air can no longer hold the moisture and releases it onto the wall surfaces. You are most likely to notice this around window areas or in bathrooms, where glass or mirrors fog up.
Mold requires mainly moisture to develop, above 70%, and since this moisture is present at thermal bridges, mold will inevitably form there.
A thermal bridge (often mistakenly called a cold bridge) is an area in the building components of a structure through which heat is conducted to the outside more quickly than through other parts.
This means that the interior surfaces of the wall in these areas cool down more, so the warm, moisture-saturated indoor air can no longer hold the moisture and releases it onto the wall surfaces. You are most likely to notice this around window areas or in bathrooms, where glass or mirrors fog up.
Mold requires mainly moisture to develop, above 70%, and since this moisture is present at thermal bridges, mold will inevitably form there.
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