I hope I have chosen the right subforum, as my question doesn’t perfectly fit anywhere.
We are planning to install one or two awnings above our terrace. It is a multi-family building, and we have a ground-floor apartment with a continuous terrace area, as wide as our living space (see pictures). Above part of it is the balcony of the apartment above (width approximately 4m (13 feet); the awning would be about 3.5m (11.5 feet) wide and 3–3.5m (10–11.5 feet) deep), while the other area is uncovered (width about 5m (16.5 feet); the awning would be 4.5m (15 feet) wide and 3.5–4m (11.5–13 feet) deep). Since our terrace faces roughly south-southwest, we would ideally like to have an awning over both areas, as the balcony offers only little sun protection during the day. However, the uncovered area is more important. So far, we have obtained quotes from local specialist companies. They also examined the situation on site, as the installation is somewhat complicated (as it turned out later). These companies should know what they are doing, but so far we have not felt completely confident about any of the proposed solutions or fully convinced. Therefore, we would appreciate additional opinions about the possible installation methods.
Uncovered terrace area:
The “installation issue” with the uncovered terrace area is that the first-floor apartment has floor-to-ceiling windows spanning the entire width (see pictures as well). These floor-to-ceiling windows naturally have fall protection barriers. Because of these barriers, the awning cannot be attached directly to the wall.
One company (which installs Klaiber awnings) suggested mounting the awning directly onto the brackets/supports of the fall protection barriers on the floor-to-ceiling windows. What do you think about this? I have a feeling these supports are probably not designed to also carry the weight of an awning!? We were told to ask the construction company about this, but there is no cooperation or assistance available. Additionally, the awning would be quite large at 4.5m x 4m (approximately 14.75 ft x 13 ft) (fully extended 18m² (194 ft²)). That must be a considerable weight.
Another company (which installs Hella awnings) proposed having custom spacer brackets fabricated by a metalworker and then attaching the awning to the wall. I actually prefer this option, but custom-made brackets? Are there no ready-made solutions from the awning manufacturers that are approved for this? Also, there is the question regarding the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS, or “external wall insulation”). These custom spacer brackets would be attached to the wall, but the insulation is not load-bearing material. Can it handle these loads at all? The company said that nowadays you can’t remove the ETICS, but there are special anchor bolts for this. I looked it up, and such anchors do exist, but wouldn’t these brackets need to be fastened directly to the concrete behind the insulation? Presumably, just like the fall protection brackets, which come out of the wall, I assume this is how it should be done. Otherwise, the screws would have to go from the anchor in the concrete through the insulation before holding the spacer brackets. This would create quite a lever effect because the insulation is quite thick nowadays, and the screws have no grip in it. It would feel like hanging a heavy object 15–20cm (6–8 inches) away from the wall, only supported by screws. Or am I misunderstanding something?
As a layperson, I would suspect the best option is to remove some of the insulation, then fasten the spacer brackets underneath the insulation directly to the concrete, and then close the insulation again. After that, mount the awning on these spacer brackets.
Covered area:
There is no problem with the insulation here, but the same issue regarding the distance applies. Here, it is the fall protection of the balcony instead of the windows, as unfortunately it is a prefabricated balcony and not a “built-on” balcony. Basically, the question is where and how it should be best attached here. Also with custom spacer brackets?
I would greatly appreciate expert advice. I am also open to tips regarding awning manufacturers (How do Klaiber and Hella compare?). I often see Markilux, Weinor, and Warema described as top brands. I have read less about Hella and Klaiber so far.
We are planning to install one or two awnings above our terrace. It is a multi-family building, and we have a ground-floor apartment with a continuous terrace area, as wide as our living space (see pictures). Above part of it is the balcony of the apartment above (width approximately 4m (13 feet); the awning would be about 3.5m (11.5 feet) wide and 3–3.5m (10–11.5 feet) deep), while the other area is uncovered (width about 5m (16.5 feet); the awning would be 4.5m (15 feet) wide and 3.5–4m (11.5–13 feet) deep). Since our terrace faces roughly south-southwest, we would ideally like to have an awning over both areas, as the balcony offers only little sun protection during the day. However, the uncovered area is more important. So far, we have obtained quotes from local specialist companies. They also examined the situation on site, as the installation is somewhat complicated (as it turned out later). These companies should know what they are doing, but so far we have not felt completely confident about any of the proposed solutions or fully convinced. Therefore, we would appreciate additional opinions about the possible installation methods.
Uncovered terrace area:
The “installation issue” with the uncovered terrace area is that the first-floor apartment has floor-to-ceiling windows spanning the entire width (see pictures as well). These floor-to-ceiling windows naturally have fall protection barriers. Because of these barriers, the awning cannot be attached directly to the wall.
One company (which installs Klaiber awnings) suggested mounting the awning directly onto the brackets/supports of the fall protection barriers on the floor-to-ceiling windows. What do you think about this? I have a feeling these supports are probably not designed to also carry the weight of an awning!? We were told to ask the construction company about this, but there is no cooperation or assistance available. Additionally, the awning would be quite large at 4.5m x 4m (approximately 14.75 ft x 13 ft) (fully extended 18m² (194 ft²)). That must be a considerable weight.
Another company (which installs Hella awnings) proposed having custom spacer brackets fabricated by a metalworker and then attaching the awning to the wall. I actually prefer this option, but custom-made brackets? Are there no ready-made solutions from the awning manufacturers that are approved for this? Also, there is the question regarding the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS, or “external wall insulation”). These custom spacer brackets would be attached to the wall, but the insulation is not load-bearing material. Can it handle these loads at all? The company said that nowadays you can’t remove the ETICS, but there are special anchor bolts for this. I looked it up, and such anchors do exist, but wouldn’t these brackets need to be fastened directly to the concrete behind the insulation? Presumably, just like the fall protection brackets, which come out of the wall, I assume this is how it should be done. Otherwise, the screws would have to go from the anchor in the concrete through the insulation before holding the spacer brackets. This would create quite a lever effect because the insulation is quite thick nowadays, and the screws have no grip in it. It would feel like hanging a heavy object 15–20cm (6–8 inches) away from the wall, only supported by screws. Or am I misunderstanding something?
As a layperson, I would suspect the best option is to remove some of the insulation, then fasten the spacer brackets underneath the insulation directly to the concrete, and then close the insulation again. After that, mount the awning on these spacer brackets.
Covered area:
There is no problem with the insulation here, but the same issue regarding the distance applies. Here, it is the fall protection of the balcony instead of the windows, as unfortunately it is a prefabricated balcony and not a “built-on” balcony. Basically, the question is where and how it should be best attached here. Also with custom spacer brackets?
I would greatly appreciate expert advice. I am also open to tips regarding awning manufacturers (How do Klaiber and Hella compare?). I often see Markilux, Weinor, and Warema described as top brands. I have read less about Hella and Klaiber so far.
K1300S schrieb:
Nothing, absolutely nothing. Our awning is anchored into the concrete ceiling with a total of twelve rods, each embedded about 30cm (12 inches) deep using injection mortar. They made sure to hit roughly the middle of the ceiling, and not simply because they could have used a few hundred screws and plugs. Sure, the awning extends four meters (13 feet), but the bracket on the grille is definitely far too weak for such loads, even if only three and a half meters (11.5 feet) of extension are used. Wow, 12 anchor points in the wall? That's intense, but I’d rather have it too secure than too loose, judging by the comments here. Although nearly everyone says an awning of this size never holds up and folds up at the slightest breeze or damages the wall.
How large exactly is your awning? Which manufacturer?
I found the mounting on the window grilles a bit daring, so for me, that’s out of the question anyway. If at all, it should be mounted directly into the wall.
Well, the awning is 650cm (256 inches) wide and 400cm (157 inches) deep. It was installed by a reputable professional company, so it should be fine. (There are apparently very specific requirements for how it must be mounted, including, for example, the mentioned injection mortar.) Of course, you shouldn’t use it during storms, but in normal local wind conditions (maximum wind force 5), it doesn’t seem like it would fail over time. By the way, the manufacturer is Varisol. We are very satisfied.
What I actually wanted to point out: even if you don’t buy an awning, you should avoid the company that offered you this questionable “mounting” solution.
What I actually wanted to point out: even if you don’t buy an awning, you should avoid the company that offered you this questionable “mounting” solution.
After reading this thread, I’m generally uncertain about what we should choose or do. As mentioned, nearly everyone here was against an awning because it’s too large and not stable enough. But if you have 650cm x 400cm (256 inches x 157 inches), that’s even bigger than our 450cm x 400cm (177 inches x 157 inches). If I calculate two attachment points per meter like you did, we would need about nine. An awning is still our favorite option because it saves us from needing extra supports (this is about the look, not the cost). We want to cover two areas, and with supported shading, it would look much worse (a total of four supports).
I noticed that there is one of only six Markilux flagship stores in Germany right in the neighboring town. I think we will at least visit there.
I noticed that there is one of only six Markilux flagship stores in Germany right in the neighboring town. I think we will at least visit there.
You should definitely do this because securing such a heavy structure is not a simple task and is best handled by a professional. Therefore, in my opinion, the only practical solution would be to install it in front of the French balconies, possibly using suitable spacers. For our awning, the experienced team of four took about two hours to complete the installation, excluding the electrical connection, which I did myself. The total cost was around 600 EUR, which I consider reasonable. This is not something to be done "quickly," especially since mistakes can often lead to unpleasant consequences.
You just have to keep in mind that sailboats can reach high speeds, which clearly shows that a propeller might not last very long there.
Since this ultimately involves changing the common property, I wouldn’t take any risks even if all members of the homeowners’ association (HOA) agree to release liability.
If in the end the entire facade has to be renovated at that spot (even if some insurance covers it), you’ll only have trouble.
Apart from the fact that I personally would prefer two to four support posts instead of an awning, I believe that a fixed roof structure will not only be safer but possibly even more cost-effective in the long run.
There is a thread here about KD roofing with many user experiences and photos. Take a look through it—you might change your mind.
Since this ultimately involves changing the common property, I wouldn’t take any risks even if all members of the homeowners’ association (HOA) agree to release liability.
If in the end the entire facade has to be renovated at that spot (even if some insurance covers it), you’ll only have trouble.
Apart from the fact that I personally would prefer two to four support posts instead of an awning, I believe that a fixed roof structure will not only be safer but possibly even more cost-effective in the long run.
There is a thread here about KD roofing with many user experiences and photos. Take a look through it—you might change your mind.
Print out your photos,
paint, draw, and doodle different solutions on them, sit in your garden and let the images sink in. Ask the authorities and acquaintances for their impressions.
I have been overruled harshly before,
and factual arguments often determine the functionality and durability.
paint, draw, and doodle different solutions on them, sit in your garden and let the images sink in. Ask the authorities and acquaintances for their impressions.
I have been overruled harshly before,
and factual arguments often determine the functionality and durability.
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