I hope I have chosen the right subforum, as my question doesn’t perfectly fit anywhere.
We are planning to install one or two awnings above our terrace. It is a multi-family building, and we have a ground-floor apartment with a continuous terrace area, as wide as our living space (see pictures). Above part of it is the balcony of the apartment above (width approximately 4m (13 feet); the awning would be about 3.5m (11.5 feet) wide and 3–3.5m (10–11.5 feet) deep), while the other area is uncovered (width about 5m (16.5 feet); the awning would be 4.5m (15 feet) wide and 3.5–4m (11.5–13 feet) deep). Since our terrace faces roughly south-southwest, we would ideally like to have an awning over both areas, as the balcony offers only little sun protection during the day. However, the uncovered area is more important. So far, we have obtained quotes from local specialist companies. They also examined the situation on site, as the installation is somewhat complicated (as it turned out later). These companies should know what they are doing, but so far we have not felt completely confident about any of the proposed solutions or fully convinced. Therefore, we would appreciate additional opinions about the possible installation methods.
Uncovered terrace area:
The “installation issue” with the uncovered terrace area is that the first-floor apartment has floor-to-ceiling windows spanning the entire width (see pictures as well). These floor-to-ceiling windows naturally have fall protection barriers. Because of these barriers, the awning cannot be attached directly to the wall.
One company (which installs Klaiber awnings) suggested mounting the awning directly onto the brackets/supports of the fall protection barriers on the floor-to-ceiling windows. What do you think about this? I have a feeling these supports are probably not designed to also carry the weight of an awning!? We were told to ask the construction company about this, but there is no cooperation or assistance available. Additionally, the awning would be quite large at 4.5m x 4m (approximately 14.75 ft x 13 ft) (fully extended 18m² (194 ft²)). That must be a considerable weight.
Another company (which installs Hella awnings) proposed having custom spacer brackets fabricated by a metalworker and then attaching the awning to the wall. I actually prefer this option, but custom-made brackets? Are there no ready-made solutions from the awning manufacturers that are approved for this? Also, there is the question regarding the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS, or “external wall insulation”). These custom spacer brackets would be attached to the wall, but the insulation is not load-bearing material. Can it handle these loads at all? The company said that nowadays you can’t remove the ETICS, but there are special anchor bolts for this. I looked it up, and such anchors do exist, but wouldn’t these brackets need to be fastened directly to the concrete behind the insulation? Presumably, just like the fall protection brackets, which come out of the wall, I assume this is how it should be done. Otherwise, the screws would have to go from the anchor in the concrete through the insulation before holding the spacer brackets. This would create quite a lever effect because the insulation is quite thick nowadays, and the screws have no grip in it. It would feel like hanging a heavy object 15–20cm (6–8 inches) away from the wall, only supported by screws. Or am I misunderstanding something?
As a layperson, I would suspect the best option is to remove some of the insulation, then fasten the spacer brackets underneath the insulation directly to the concrete, and then close the insulation again. After that, mount the awning on these spacer brackets.
Covered area:
There is no problem with the insulation here, but the same issue regarding the distance applies. Here, it is the fall protection of the balcony instead of the windows, as unfortunately it is a prefabricated balcony and not a “built-on” balcony. Basically, the question is where and how it should be best attached here. Also with custom spacer brackets?
I would greatly appreciate expert advice. I am also open to tips regarding awning manufacturers (How do Klaiber and Hella compare?). I often see Markilux, Weinor, and Warema described as top brands. I have read less about Hella and Klaiber so far.
We are planning to install one or two awnings above our terrace. It is a multi-family building, and we have a ground-floor apartment with a continuous terrace area, as wide as our living space (see pictures). Above part of it is the balcony of the apartment above (width approximately 4m (13 feet); the awning would be about 3.5m (11.5 feet) wide and 3–3.5m (10–11.5 feet) deep), while the other area is uncovered (width about 5m (16.5 feet); the awning would be 4.5m (15 feet) wide and 3.5–4m (11.5–13 feet) deep). Since our terrace faces roughly south-southwest, we would ideally like to have an awning over both areas, as the balcony offers only little sun protection during the day. However, the uncovered area is more important. So far, we have obtained quotes from local specialist companies. They also examined the situation on site, as the installation is somewhat complicated (as it turned out later). These companies should know what they are doing, but so far we have not felt completely confident about any of the proposed solutions or fully convinced. Therefore, we would appreciate additional opinions about the possible installation methods.
Uncovered terrace area:
The “installation issue” with the uncovered terrace area is that the first-floor apartment has floor-to-ceiling windows spanning the entire width (see pictures as well). These floor-to-ceiling windows naturally have fall protection barriers. Because of these barriers, the awning cannot be attached directly to the wall.
One company (which installs Klaiber awnings) suggested mounting the awning directly onto the brackets/supports of the fall protection barriers on the floor-to-ceiling windows. What do you think about this? I have a feeling these supports are probably not designed to also carry the weight of an awning!? We were told to ask the construction company about this, but there is no cooperation or assistance available. Additionally, the awning would be quite large at 4.5m x 4m (approximately 14.75 ft x 13 ft) (fully extended 18m² (194 ft²)). That must be a considerable weight.
Another company (which installs Hella awnings) proposed having custom spacer brackets fabricated by a metalworker and then attaching the awning to the wall. I actually prefer this option, but custom-made brackets? Are there no ready-made solutions from the awning manufacturers that are approved for this? Also, there is the question regarding the external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS, or “external wall insulation”). These custom spacer brackets would be attached to the wall, but the insulation is not load-bearing material. Can it handle these loads at all? The company said that nowadays you can’t remove the ETICS, but there are special anchor bolts for this. I looked it up, and such anchors do exist, but wouldn’t these brackets need to be fastened directly to the concrete behind the insulation? Presumably, just like the fall protection brackets, which come out of the wall, I assume this is how it should be done. Otherwise, the screws would have to go from the anchor in the concrete through the insulation before holding the spacer brackets. This would create quite a lever effect because the insulation is quite thick nowadays, and the screws have no grip in it. It would feel like hanging a heavy object 15–20cm (6–8 inches) away from the wall, only supported by screws. Or am I misunderstanding something?
As a layperson, I would suspect the best option is to remove some of the insulation, then fasten the spacer brackets underneath the insulation directly to the concrete, and then close the insulation again. After that, mount the awning on these spacer brackets.
Covered area:
There is no problem with the insulation here, but the same issue regarding the distance applies. Here, it is the fall protection of the balcony instead of the windows, as unfortunately it is a prefabricated balcony and not a “built-on” balcony. Basically, the question is where and how it should be best attached here. Also with custom spacer brackets?
I would greatly appreciate expert advice. I am also open to tips regarding awning manufacturers (How do Klaiber and Hella compare?). I often see Markilux, Weinor, and Warema described as top brands. I have read less about Hella and Klaiber so far.
N
nordanney20 Jul 2020 09:04Effe2020 schrieb:
Regarding sun sails:
We had this idea too, but you would need to install 2-3 posts in the ground somewhere. And then take the sails down and put them back up whenever it’s not suitable?A good sun sail is installed in spring and taken down in autumn. That’s all there is to it. Have the posts custom-made and set them in concrete. Get the sun sail tailor-made, hang it up, and enjoy the summer.
Or you can choose a sunshade pergola; ours measures 4m x 3.5m (13 ft x 11.5 ft) and is rated for wind speeds up to force 3, with gusts up to force 6. If it gets very windy, we only extend it halfway, so there’s no rattling.
You don’t need such a strong wall connection because the sunshade runs on a track, which you can also use to mount spotlights and heaters.
Cost-wise, two awnings.
@Effe2020 that’s why you go to a specialist store—they will tell you how to anchor it properly to handle certain wind speeds without problems. We were advised against an awning right away because, in that size, it can basically only be extended when there is no wind—and on the coast, there are only two days a year with no wind.
Otherwise, the wind will catch it and flip the entire awning up onto the roof or, in your case, onto the neighbor’s balcony.
An awning acts as a huge lever and is supposed to be held in place by just a few small bolts into your masonry.
You should also keep in mind that the awning must not be anchored into the last course of bricks; it should be fixed slightly lower.
You don’t need such a strong wall connection because the sunshade runs on a track, which you can also use to mount spotlights and heaters.
Cost-wise, two awnings.
@Effe2020 that’s why you go to a specialist store—they will tell you how to anchor it properly to handle certain wind speeds without problems. We were advised against an awning right away because, in that size, it can basically only be extended when there is no wind—and on the coast, there are only two days a year with no wind.
Otherwise, the wind will catch it and flip the entire awning up onto the roof or, in your case, onto the neighbor’s balcony.
An awning acts as a huge lever and is supposed to be held in place by just a few small bolts into your masonry.
You should also keep in mind that the awning must not be anchored into the last course of bricks; it should be fixed slightly lower.
@Effe2020
Our problem is 5 meters (16.4 feet) wide with a projection of 4.8 meters (15.7 feet). A matching awning that size would have to be very sturdy and, therefore, quite expensive.
We visited the showrooms of two sunshade installation companies and received extensive advice. We have solid walls but would still have stability issues because they would only install it fixed to the intermediate floor slab.
The wind load on such an area is huge—not just the weight of the awning itself. A freely hanging awning fully extended can sway up to 10 centimeters (4 inches) at the end, 20 centimeters (8 inches) in the wind, and much more during storms.
Search online for awnings or sun sails in storms—you’ll find that strong winds occur more often than you might expect. Look at large awnings in northern regions or mountainous areas; all of them are supported at the outer edge, and their frames resemble those used in bridge construction.
We decided on a retractable electric sun sail, which is now perfect for our needs.
Best regards, Nida
Our problem is 5 meters (16.4 feet) wide with a projection of 4.8 meters (15.7 feet). A matching awning that size would have to be very sturdy and, therefore, quite expensive.
We visited the showrooms of two sunshade installation companies and received extensive advice. We have solid walls but would still have stability issues because they would only install it fixed to the intermediate floor slab.
The wind load on such an area is huge—not just the weight of the awning itself. A freely hanging awning fully extended can sway up to 10 centimeters (4 inches) at the end, 20 centimeters (8 inches) in the wind, and much more during storms.
Search online for awnings or sun sails in storms—you’ll find that strong winds occur more often than you might expect. Look at large awnings in northern regions or mountainous areas; all of them are supported at the outer edge, and their frames resemble those used in bridge construction.
We decided on a retractable electric sun sail, which is now perfect for our needs.
Best regards, Nida
P
pagoni202020 Jul 2020 15:59At just under 25 square meters (270 square feet) in size, I would never have chosen a single awning either, but rather two separate ones. 25 square meters (270 square feet) is huge and, in my opinion, less practical to use than two individual awnings. I don’t think you actually needed the full depth to cover the entire terrace.