Good morning everyone, and I hope you’re all having a nice Sunday. I’m new here and have quite a bit of text for you 🙄
The topic:
Due to family reasons, we want to move to a larger space and are looking for critical suggestions about which options are possible and make sense. I would appreciate it if you could also question options that we consider unrealistic, in case we are on the wrong track. One option is to buy a property from my father if we build a small new structure for him on the same plot. What possibilities do you think are reasonable?
About us:
We are a family of four: M33, F33, child 5, child 2, living in Hesse in Gelnhausen in the Main-Kinzig district, in a favorable location near the major city Frankfurt am Main, renting an apartment of 92m2 (990 sq ft) for 580€ (cold rent). My wife is a civil servant working full time, and I am permanently employed part-time (50%) in the public sector. In the future, as the kids get older, I plan to increase my hours a bit. Currently, our combined net income is 4500€. Our life philosophy is definitely to enjoy life without focusing too much on money. We travel a lot and don’t want to be financially restricted by a house or rent in the future. This also means we have relatively little savings of about 15000€, which we would prefer to keep as a reserve. Additionally, we have about 10000€ saved in a home savings contract but also a car loan of 250€/month for the next 5 years.
Even though we like our apartment very much (we’ve lived here for 5 years), we will need an additional children’s room. We considered adding a wall in the large living room here and already got landlord approval. However, we are not fully convinced by this solution because the apartment is quite noisy and we also prefer to have a garden for the kids. Staying here would be our last option if nothing else works out.
We regularly look for rental apartments, houses for rent, or houses for purchase. The market is very limited. Every two weeks there is a new listing, and the number of applicants is huge.
Rental apartments:
Some larger apartments of 100m2+ (1,075 sq ft) come up regularly, but they often do not have enough rooms and are listed for over 900€ (cold rent).
Rental houses:
The same applies for rental houses. If any are available, the price is about 1100€+ (cold rent).
Houses for purchase:
There are very few offers, starting at around 400,000€, often needing significant renovation. Since we have little to no equity, buying a house seems quite unrealistic. Agent fees, property transfer tax, and notary will add up to about 50,000€ in additional costs. That does not include any renovation, and our estimated monthly payment would be about 1600€+ for the next 30 years.
Buying my father’s house:
Our current favorite is buying my father’s semi-detached house in the same town. An independent appraisal values it at 200,000€ (100,000€ house, 90,000€ land, 10,000€ outbuildings). The catch/advantage is that my father would like to keep living on the property. We considered this because he lives alone and the house is too big for him. My mother passed away 8 years ago, and I already inherited 1/6 of the house (33,000€, 4/6 belong to my father and 1/6 to my sister). My father has an outstanding mortgage of about 30,000€, so our net equity is roughly 28,000€.
Current situation:
We would buy the entire house from my father and sister and then build a small house or extension on the same property for my father. We currently prefer this approach because we want to avoid paying out my sister after my father passes. He is just shy of 60 years old and will need a small place for the next 25 years.
We see this option as advantageous on several levels:
1. We get a house with a garden without needing much equity
2. My father can downsize
3. We can support each other with vacations, shopping, cooking, etc.
4. Grandpa can look after the grandchildren
5. We can care for him more easily in the future
We both prefer a clear separation. Whatever is built will be clearly separated, even though it belongs to us. If my father moves out later, we would rent the unit or use it for our children.
Is this financially feasible?
This was a lot of background to involve you and hopefully get help in case we are on the wrong track.
We imagine a small unit of about 50m2 (540 sq ft) for him, as inexpensive as possible. It feels strange to move into a house worth 100,000€ and then build a new one for him that costs twice that. We know 100,000€ is not enough, but maybe you have ideas.
We asked several banks about our maximum loan with a target monthly payment of 1000€, comparable to rent, so we can maintain our lifestyle. The bank would lend us 395,000€ under these conditions.
172,000€ for house and land including the inherited share
23,000€ renovation (new small bathroom, new carpet and wallpaper everywhere, possibly moving the stove, possibly breaking through a wall)
10,000€ demolition of the barn
170,000€ left for extension/foundation/expansion (50m2)
= 375,000€, which means a monthly payment of about 1300€ and leaves 20,000€ as reserve in case costs are higher. This fits our desired total monthly payment of 1400€.
450€ would be paid by my father as rent, 950€ by us, and 50€ into savings.
So far, so good. Please critically question the numbers if something looks off.
Extension or barn renovation?
I am attaching a sketch so you can hopefully visualize it better. There are several approaches. At the moment, the barn is connected to the main house by a suspended room.
We want a house with lots of wood inside. It can also be a log cabin. It should have a stove and a small guest room for when my sister visits.
Here are all the ideas so far. In all cases, the garage will be demolished.
1. Renovate the barn
2. Build an extension onto the barn where the garage was
3. Demolish the barn; keep the suspended room and integrate it into the extension
4. Demolish barn and suspended room and build a new structure
5. Do you have alternative ideas?
1. Renovate the barn:
It’s not in the best condition. It’s quite damp. Waterproofing from below would have to be added later (a foundation slab after the fact?). The intermediate ceiling must be removed as there is just enough headroom on the ground floor. The roof probably needs to be replaced. Window openings must be altered and electrical and plumbing installed. A benefit is that the structure already sits on the plot boundaries and so no new negotiations with the building authority or neighbors would be needed.
2. Build an extension onto the barn at the garage site:
A benefit is additional storage space that both we and my father can continue to use. Wood and a workshop area can remain in the barn. A drawback is reduced garden space and the plots would not be clearly separated anymore, as garden and barn are shared.
3. Demolish the barn; keep suspended room integrated into new build:
The advantage is additional space from the suspended room and the covered area it creates. This is useful for hanging laundry or being outside in the rain. A challenge is integrating the suspended room into the new build, which might require custom solutions, increasing the cost. It would also result in a connected extension, as the suspended room links both buildings.
4. Demolish barn and suspended room and build a new structure:
The advantage could be a wider choice of design options for the new building. The question is whether this still counts as an extension. Water and electricity would be supplied via the main house but it would be physically separate.
5. Do you have alternative ideas?
Our current approach
Our first step was to contact an architect who visited the site. Several phone calls followed, during which I noticed we kept discussing things that should have been settled already. I found this very frustrating and exhausting. Now I wonder if going through an architect is the right way or if we can proceed more cheaply otherwise. As mentioned, our requirements are minimal. I do want to share a few points from him here: he said he would tear down the barn and suspended room right away. He considers an extension unproblematic as it is supplied through the main house. Separation would be more difficult.
Open questions
What is the right approach? (Discussing here on the forum what the most sensible option is and then making targeted inquiries, or is there someone who can tell us what is cheapest?)
Who should we contact (another architect, a construction company, a prefab house company)?
Who can answer our questions without focusing on their own profit?
What would you do?
When does an extension officially count as an extension?
Do you have any questions?
Conclusion
I want to thank everyone who started reading, and especially those who have made it this far. 🙂 This is a lot and probably worth 4-10 forum threads. I decided to write everything down in one go to also help myself get organized, which was helpful.
Thank you very much for your help, and it’s great that there is such a large and active forum.
Have a nice Sunday and stay healthy!
The topic:
Due to family reasons, we want to move to a larger space and are looking for critical suggestions about which options are possible and make sense. I would appreciate it if you could also question options that we consider unrealistic, in case we are on the wrong track. One option is to buy a property from my father if we build a small new structure for him on the same plot. What possibilities do you think are reasonable?
About us:
We are a family of four: M33, F33, child 5, child 2, living in Hesse in Gelnhausen in the Main-Kinzig district, in a favorable location near the major city Frankfurt am Main, renting an apartment of 92m2 (990 sq ft) for 580€ (cold rent). My wife is a civil servant working full time, and I am permanently employed part-time (50%) in the public sector. In the future, as the kids get older, I plan to increase my hours a bit. Currently, our combined net income is 4500€. Our life philosophy is definitely to enjoy life without focusing too much on money. We travel a lot and don’t want to be financially restricted by a house or rent in the future. This also means we have relatively little savings of about 15000€, which we would prefer to keep as a reserve. Additionally, we have about 10000€ saved in a home savings contract but also a car loan of 250€/month for the next 5 years.
Even though we like our apartment very much (we’ve lived here for 5 years), we will need an additional children’s room. We considered adding a wall in the large living room here and already got landlord approval. However, we are not fully convinced by this solution because the apartment is quite noisy and we also prefer to have a garden for the kids. Staying here would be our last option if nothing else works out.
We regularly look for rental apartments, houses for rent, or houses for purchase. The market is very limited. Every two weeks there is a new listing, and the number of applicants is huge.
Rental apartments:
Some larger apartments of 100m2+ (1,075 sq ft) come up regularly, but they often do not have enough rooms and are listed for over 900€ (cold rent).
Rental houses:
The same applies for rental houses. If any are available, the price is about 1100€+ (cold rent).
Houses for purchase:
There are very few offers, starting at around 400,000€, often needing significant renovation. Since we have little to no equity, buying a house seems quite unrealistic. Agent fees, property transfer tax, and notary will add up to about 50,000€ in additional costs. That does not include any renovation, and our estimated monthly payment would be about 1600€+ for the next 30 years.
Buying my father’s house:
Our current favorite is buying my father’s semi-detached house in the same town. An independent appraisal values it at 200,000€ (100,000€ house, 90,000€ land, 10,000€ outbuildings). The catch/advantage is that my father would like to keep living on the property. We considered this because he lives alone and the house is too big for him. My mother passed away 8 years ago, and I already inherited 1/6 of the house (33,000€, 4/6 belong to my father and 1/6 to my sister). My father has an outstanding mortgage of about 30,000€, so our net equity is roughly 28,000€.
Current situation:
We would buy the entire house from my father and sister and then build a small house or extension on the same property for my father. We currently prefer this approach because we want to avoid paying out my sister after my father passes. He is just shy of 60 years old and will need a small place for the next 25 years.
We see this option as advantageous on several levels:
1. We get a house with a garden without needing much equity
2. My father can downsize
3. We can support each other with vacations, shopping, cooking, etc.
4. Grandpa can look after the grandchildren
5. We can care for him more easily in the future
We both prefer a clear separation. Whatever is built will be clearly separated, even though it belongs to us. If my father moves out later, we would rent the unit or use it for our children.
Is this financially feasible?
This was a lot of background to involve you and hopefully get help in case we are on the wrong track.
We imagine a small unit of about 50m2 (540 sq ft) for him, as inexpensive as possible. It feels strange to move into a house worth 100,000€ and then build a new one for him that costs twice that. We know 100,000€ is not enough, but maybe you have ideas.
We asked several banks about our maximum loan with a target monthly payment of 1000€, comparable to rent, so we can maintain our lifestyle. The bank would lend us 395,000€ under these conditions.
172,000€ for house and land including the inherited share
23,000€ renovation (new small bathroom, new carpet and wallpaper everywhere, possibly moving the stove, possibly breaking through a wall)
10,000€ demolition of the barn
170,000€ left for extension/foundation/expansion (50m2)
= 375,000€, which means a monthly payment of about 1300€ and leaves 20,000€ as reserve in case costs are higher. This fits our desired total monthly payment of 1400€.
450€ would be paid by my father as rent, 950€ by us, and 50€ into savings.
So far, so good. Please critically question the numbers if something looks off.
Extension or barn renovation?
I am attaching a sketch so you can hopefully visualize it better. There are several approaches. At the moment, the barn is connected to the main house by a suspended room.
We want a house with lots of wood inside. It can also be a log cabin. It should have a stove and a small guest room for when my sister visits.
Here are all the ideas so far. In all cases, the garage will be demolished.
1. Renovate the barn
2. Build an extension onto the barn where the garage was
3. Demolish the barn; keep the suspended room and integrate it into the extension
4. Demolish barn and suspended room and build a new structure
5. Do you have alternative ideas?
1. Renovate the barn:
It’s not in the best condition. It’s quite damp. Waterproofing from below would have to be added later (a foundation slab after the fact?). The intermediate ceiling must be removed as there is just enough headroom on the ground floor. The roof probably needs to be replaced. Window openings must be altered and electrical and plumbing installed. A benefit is that the structure already sits on the plot boundaries and so no new negotiations with the building authority or neighbors would be needed.
2. Build an extension onto the barn at the garage site:
A benefit is additional storage space that both we and my father can continue to use. Wood and a workshop area can remain in the barn. A drawback is reduced garden space and the plots would not be clearly separated anymore, as garden and barn are shared.
3. Demolish the barn; keep suspended room integrated into new build:
The advantage is additional space from the suspended room and the covered area it creates. This is useful for hanging laundry or being outside in the rain. A challenge is integrating the suspended room into the new build, which might require custom solutions, increasing the cost. It would also result in a connected extension, as the suspended room links both buildings.
4. Demolish barn and suspended room and build a new structure:
The advantage could be a wider choice of design options for the new building. The question is whether this still counts as an extension. Water and electricity would be supplied via the main house but it would be physically separate.
5. Do you have alternative ideas?
Our current approach
Our first step was to contact an architect who visited the site. Several phone calls followed, during which I noticed we kept discussing things that should have been settled already. I found this very frustrating and exhausting. Now I wonder if going through an architect is the right way or if we can proceed more cheaply otherwise. As mentioned, our requirements are minimal. I do want to share a few points from him here: he said he would tear down the barn and suspended room right away. He considers an extension unproblematic as it is supplied through the main house. Separation would be more difficult.
Open questions
What is the right approach? (Discussing here on the forum what the most sensible option is and then making targeted inquiries, or is there someone who can tell us what is cheapest?)
Who should we contact (another architect, a construction company, a prefab house company)?
Who can answer our questions without focusing on their own profit?
What would you do?
When does an extension officially count as an extension?
Do you have any questions?
Conclusion
I want to thank everyone who started reading, and especially those who have made it this far. 🙂 This is a lot and probably worth 4-10 forum threads. I decided to write everything down in one go to also help myself get organized, which was helpful.
Thank you very much for your help, and it’s great that there is such a large and active forum.
Have a nice Sunday and stay healthy!
Yes, you go to the architect, exactly.
The initial consultation should also be free, as they want to win you as a client.
You bring along: the current house plans, photos, and a rough sketch of how you imagine an extension. So you need to enter the meeting with a clear idea of what you want.
You simply explain what you want and ask if it is possible, if there might be a better or more cost-effective way to do it, and what it would roughly cost using simple and economical construction methods without any extras. You don’t reveal your budget. If the estimate and your budget don’t match, things will need to be reviewed later.
The initial consultation should also be free, as they want to win you as a client.
You bring along: the current house plans, photos, and a rough sketch of how you imagine an extension. So you need to enter the meeting with a clear idea of what you want.
You simply explain what you want and ask if it is possible, if there might be a better or more cost-effective way to do it, and what it would roughly cost using simple and economical construction methods without any extras. You don’t reveal your budget. If the estimate and your budget don’t match, things will need to be reviewed later.
H
Hausbautraum2020 Jan 2021 13:46Overall, I also think that an architect is the right contact person, especially. Our builder has done a lot of renovations as well, so maybe someone like that could be an option too.
I can’t remember every detail from the original post, but was demolishing the barn and building a new house for YOU an option? You could then use the land as equity. This would especially solve the problem of your dad getting an expensive new build for himself while you live in the “cheaper” old house.
Otherwise, I find your plan quite challenging overall. Some friends of ours built a 70 m² (750 sq ft) age-appropriate bungalow on their plot, but they said it ended up costing around 250,000. Despite having a great relationship with my parents, I wouldn’t be very happy with this option myself. For a new, nice house of your own, a €200 (about $215) higher loan payment might actually be more comfortable and acceptable than the currently planned option.
I can’t remember every detail from the original post, but was demolishing the barn and building a new house for YOU an option? You could then use the land as equity. This would especially solve the problem of your dad getting an expensive new build for himself while you live in the “cheaper” old house.
Otherwise, I find your plan quite challenging overall. Some friends of ours built a 70 m² (750 sq ft) age-appropriate bungalow on their plot, but they said it ended up costing around 250,000. Despite having a great relationship with my parents, I wouldn’t be very happy with this option myself. For a new, nice house of your own, a €200 (about $215) higher loan payment might actually be more comfortable and acceptable than the currently planned option.
Hausbautraum20 schrieb:
Overall, I also think that an architect is the right contact person, especially.
Our builder has done a lot of renovation work as well, so maybe someone like that could also help.
I can’t remember every detail from the initial post, but was tearing down the barn and building a new house for YOU an option?
You could then use the land as equity.
This would mainly solve the problem that your father gets an expensive new build for himself while you live in the "cheaper" old house.
Otherwise, I see your plan as rather difficult overall. Friends of ours built a 70m² (750 sq ft) age-appropriate bungalow on their property, but according to them it ended up costing around €250,000.
And even though I have a great relationship with my parents, I wouldn’t personally like this version that much either.
For your own new and nice house, a €200 more loan payment might be more comfortable and manageable than the currently planned option. Hi there, thank you very much for thinking along and suggesting an alternative. In this case, my father wants to downsize. He lives alone (he has had a girlfriend for 4 years now, she lives in a newly built house but still has a minor child – he does not want to move in there but wants his own retreat) in the house, and I think he also wants a change of scenery. My mother passed away 8 years ago; they had bought and made the house beautiful together. Seeing it every day probably holds him back for the future. I don’t know, it’s speculation and not really important here, but I included it for explanation.
Yes, if the conclusion is that we need to invest more money, then we will consider it. So far, we don’t fully understand the numbers. When they say you can build for €2,000/m² (approximately $186/sq ft), with 50m² (540 sq ft) that’s €100,000 (about $110,000). Now there’s also the demolition of the barn to factor in.
H
Hausbautraum2020 Jan 2021 16:23Quite complicated on your end ;-)
For realistic figures, you could get a standard free quote from a builder for a bungalow with 50m² (540 sq ft). Also, ask a demolition contractor what they would charge for the teardown.
That shouldn’t be a problem, and then you’ll have a rough idea of the price range for this option. Of course, this varies a lot depending on the region.
The issue will be that with 50m² (540 sq ft), the €2000 won’t be feasible because you’ll still need expensive items like the bathroom, front door, heating system, or roof.
Even with additional construction costs—here about €50,000—you won’t save significantly just because the house is smaller.
For example, utility connections cost us around €12,000, whether for 50m² (540 sq ft) or 200m² (2,150 sq ft).
But overall, it could well be possible for €190,000.
For realistic figures, you could get a standard free quote from a builder for a bungalow with 50m² (540 sq ft). Also, ask a demolition contractor what they would charge for the teardown.
That shouldn’t be a problem, and then you’ll have a rough idea of the price range for this option. Of course, this varies a lot depending on the region.
The issue will be that with 50m² (540 sq ft), the €2000 won’t be feasible because you’ll still need expensive items like the bathroom, front door, heating system, or roof.
Even with additional construction costs—here about €50,000—you won’t save significantly just because the house is smaller.
For example, utility connections cost us around €12,000, whether for 50m² (540 sq ft) or 200m² (2,150 sq ft).
But overall, it could well be possible for €190,000.
I reread everything carefully since I had skimmed through much of it initially, as the sketch didn’t help me at all and didn’t get my brain working.
There are no dimensions for the house, no explanations about what kind of buildings these are (such as height, number of floors, roofs...), and even the age is important, for example. It would be helpful to have a Google Maps screenshot of the surroundings or the plot, as well as some photos to get an impression of the exterior.
How large is the existing house? How much space is available here and there to add an extension? Does the existing house have a complete apartment on the ground floor, or is there a missing bedroom or bathroom? What condition is it in? Are there windows that would be lost?
For a question like this, I would expect a full set of plans and drawings that exist (or are in progress).
There are still plenty of problems here, but more on that later.
In summary: She works full-time, you work half-time. Both employed in the public sector, with a combined income of €4500.
Rental apartments cost around €900 net, houses about €1100 net, but nothing really suitable is available, or only with compromises.
From the bank, you would get just under €400,000, and you plan to pay your sister out with €28,000? Is that correct so far?
Assuming Dad keeps the house with 4/6 ownership and you own 2/6, you’d still have €370,000 available?
Why don’t you want to pay even €100 more for ownership than you would for renting? Yes, you want to live, but a bit more quality of life would be pleasant too. That should be worth €100 or €200 more, surely?
Is that what he wants? Does he know about it? Often, users here imagine a lot about their parents, but only the parents themselves don’t know anything about it and are blindsided or verbally undermined.
I don’t see a clear separation. One plot, an extension on a semi-detached house… that will be more of a conceptual separation where each party has their private space. But that seems to be what you mean and what suffices?
I remember it differently:
Log houses: much more expensive… wood is more costly than masonry.
Would it be possible to reuse shed boards? For example, to use them again as cladding?
Too expensive.
Another 8 sqm (86 sq ft), roughly $16,000…
Isn’t having a garden in the first place already a big quality of life gain for you, rather than focusing on the downsides?
If I were you, I would see the opportunity to build your own home there primarily as something positive, regardless of the garden size.
See above.
Such a conversion is usually more expensive than building new because – as you said – a barn has to be dried out and gutted. You do this when, as a lover with plenty of money, you want to preserve space or if building regulations require the existing structure to remain.
As mentioned: living spaces must not be built within the setback (usually 3 meters) from the neighbor’s boundary. What kind of building is next to the neighbor? If the barn is demolished to build new, you would have to be about 6 meters away with living spaces from that building… at least that’s my understanding.
See point 2.
See point 2, or it might work, but you need dimensions.
Yes, an extension on the right side, but information is missing (see above).
When it is attached.
Such a project is often expensive. But there are always alternatives. I see the problem (which occurred to me later) that you can’t easily combine old and new buildings cost-effectively if the existing building is too old – due to energy efficiency regulations, the old building would need insulation, etc.
Yes, someone like that works. Usually, you know someone locally who can do or oversee such work. Often you also know someone who can take a look at the existing structures.
There are no dimensions for the house, no explanations about what kind of buildings these are (such as height, number of floors, roofs...), and even the age is important, for example. It would be helpful to have a Google Maps screenshot of the surroundings or the plot, as well as some photos to get an impression of the exterior.
How large is the existing house? How much space is available here and there to add an extension? Does the existing house have a complete apartment on the ground floor, or is there a missing bedroom or bathroom? What condition is it in? Are there windows that would be lost?
For a question like this, I would expect a full set of plans and drawings that exist (or are in progress).
There are still plenty of problems here, but more on that later.
In summary: She works full-time, you work half-time. Both employed in the public sector, with a combined income of €4500.
Rental apartments cost around €900 net, houses about €1100 net, but nothing really suitable is available, or only with compromises.
From the bank, you would get just under €400,000, and you plan to pay your sister out with €28,000? Is that correct so far?
Assuming Dad keeps the house with 4/6 ownership and you own 2/6, you’d still have €370,000 available?
Why don’t you want to pay even €100 more for ownership than you would for renting? Yes, you want to live, but a bit more quality of life would be pleasant too. That should be worth €100 or €200 more, surely?
Howtnted schrieb:
We are imagining a small place of around 50m2 for him,
Is that what he wants? Does he know about it? Often, users here imagine a lot about their parents, but only the parents themselves don’t know anything about it and are blindsided or verbally undermined.
Howtnted schrieb:
We both prefer a clear separation. Whatever is built will be clearly separated, even though it belongs to us. If my father moves out, we would rent it, or our children or we would use the outbuilding.
I don’t see a clear separation. One plot, an extension on a semi-detached house… that will be more of a conceptual separation where each party has their private space. But that seems to be what you mean and what suffices?
Howtnted schrieb:
As I already wrote, our requirements are modest.
I remember it differently:
Howtnted schrieb:
We want a house with a lot of wood inside. It can also be a log house.
Log houses: much more expensive… wood is more costly than masonry.
Would it be possible to reuse shed boards? For example, to use them again as cladding?
Howtnted schrieb:
There should be a stove inside.
Too expensive.
Howtnted schrieb:
A small guest room.
Another 8 sqm (86 sq ft), roughly $16,000…
Howtnted schrieb:
The downside is the reduction of the garden area.
Isn’t having a garden in the first place already a big quality of life gain for you, rather than focusing on the downsides?
If I were you, I would see the opportunity to build your own home there primarily as something positive, regardless of the garden size.
Howtnted schrieb:
Plots can no longer be clearly separated because the garden and barn are shared.
See above.
Howtnted schrieb:
1. The barn will be converted.
Such a conversion is usually more expensive than building new because – as you said – a barn has to be dried out and gutted. You do this when, as a lover with plenty of money, you want to preserve space or if building regulations require the existing structure to remain.
Howtnted schrieb:
2. An extension will be added to the barn where the garage used to be.
As mentioned: living spaces must not be built within the setback (usually 3 meters) from the neighbor’s boundary. What kind of building is next to the neighbor? If the barn is demolished to build new, you would have to be about 6 meters away with living spaces from that building… at least that’s my understanding.
Howtnted schrieb:
3. The barn will be demolished. The “floating room” remains and will be integrated into the extension.
See point 2.
Howtnted schrieb:
4. The barn and the “floating room” will be demolished and a new building constructed.
See point 2, or it might work, but you need dimensions.
Howtnted schrieb:
5. Do you have alternative ideas?
Yes, an extension on the right side, but information is missing (see above).
Howtnted schrieb:
From when is an extension considered an extension?
When it is attached.
Howtnted schrieb:
A challenge is integrating the floating room into the new building. This requires something customized for us, which could increase the price. It would also be a direct extension because the floating room connects both buildings.
Such a project is often expensive. But there are always alternatives. I see the problem (which occurred to me later) that you can’t easily combine old and new buildings cost-effectively if the existing building is too old – due to energy efficiency regulations, the old building would need insulation, etc.
Hausbautraum20 schrieb:
Our builder has done a lot of renovations; maybe someone like that would be an option.
Yes, someone like that works. Usually, you know someone locally who can do or oversee such work. Often you also know someone who can take a look at the existing structures.
ypg schrieb:
There are no dimensions of the house, no explanations about what kind of buildings these are (for example, how tall, number of floors, roofs...), also, the age is important. A Google Maps screenshot of the surroundings or the plot, as well as some photos for an external impression, would be interesting.An incredible post! Thank you very much. It took me a bit to gather everything together 🙂
Attached is the local court’s appraisal. I tried to leave out as much personal information as possible. The rest is included, such as the floor plan of the main house, etc. There is also a floor plan of the utility building. At one point, the previous owners planned an extension there, but it was scrapped again. I have crossed it out in red. If something important is missing, I will try to add it.
ypg schrieb:
How big is the existing house?93m² (1005 sq ft) of living area plus the basement and attic as usable space, approximately 55m² (592 sq ft).ypg schrieb:
How much space is available here and there to add an extension somewhere?The barn area is about 7.5*6 = 45m² (484 sq ft).The area next to the barn, without the garage, is 7.5*8 = 60m² (646 sq ft).
So if all the outbuildings were torn down, there would be an additional 105m² (1130 sq ft) of garden/building space.
ypg schrieb:
Does the existing house have a full apartment on the ground floor, or is a bedroom or bathroom missing? What is its condition? Are there windows that would be lost?No, the apartment definitely extends over two floors. We want to renovate the upstairs bathroom. That is already included in the financial plan and doesn’t affect the 170,000 budget. According to the current plans, the windows on the main house should not change.ypg schrieb:
To summarize: She works full-time, you 50%. Both in the public sector, combined income 4,500€.
Rental apartments cost around 900€ cold rent, houses about 1,100€ cold, but there is nothing really suitable, or always only compromises.She is a civil servant. Otherwise, that’s accurate.ypg schrieb:
You would get nearly 400,000€ from the bank, and use part of that to pay out your sister with 28,000€? Is that correct?We would take out a loan of 375,000€. That would mean a monthly payment of about 1,300€. With 395,000€, it would be around 1,400€. The arrangement with my sister is correct as stated.ypg schrieb:
Let’s assume Dad keeps the property with 4/6 share, and you own 2/6, you would still have around 370,000€?After paying out my sister, we have 347,000€. What are you getting at? Our idea so far was to fully buy out the property to strengthen the idea “It belongs to US” and to avoid payout difficulties to my sister in case of inheritance later.ypg schrieb:
Why don’t you want to pay just 100€ more for ownership than what rent would cost? Sure, you want to live there, but a bit more quality of life would be nice, shouldn’t that be worth an extra 100 or 200€?Did I say that? Then I’d like to clarify: The plan was to be as economical as possible. I tried to show our priorities in life. If building “cheap” like this isn’t possible, then -> we have to increase the budget or other options become more realistic again.ypg schrieb:
Is this also his wish? Does he know about it? Often here users imagine a lot about the parents, but the parents know nothing and get blindsided or verbally overruled.Yes, he’s not yet 60, mentally fit, and we talk about it regularly. So far, I’m very positively surprised.ypg schrieb:
I don’t see a clear separation. One plot, an extension to a duplex... this will be more of a conceptual separation, where each party has their private space. That’s probably what you mean and what’s enough for you?Exactly. Conceptually, it must belong to US. But he is allowed to have his own area. He has to be the slave :pypg schrieb:
Would it be possible to reuse the shed boards? For example, to use them as facade cladding?Probably not.ypg schrieb:
Stove and guest room too expensive.See above: we are looking for the best within the stated price.We need a small guest room. It’s annoying but necessary. My sister comes from Norway and my father wants her to visit and be able to stay overnight. We don’t want to accommodate her in our living area. Additionally, the 8m² (86 sq ft) is also valuable storage space. This is definitely a MUST.
The stove is a SHOULD. If it absolutely doesn’t make sense financially, then it can be discussed. But it would be very important to us.
ypg schrieb:
Isn’t having a garden to use already much more quality of life for you, rather than only pointing out disadvantages? I would mainly see the opportunity to build/create your own home there positively, regardless of the garden size.You’re right. Compared to other options, this was more on the negative side. I also wrote multiple times that so far this project feels like a gain for everyone.ypg schrieb:
Such a conversion is usually more expensive than new construction because – as you said – a barn has to be dried and gutted. You do this if you want to preserve the space as a lover with a lot of money or for planning reasons where the existing structure must or should remain.That was our assumption too. But as a layperson you don’t understand 100%. You see a house standing and think, yep, perfect, something is already there :p. But I wanted to include it as an option because it is actually one, just probably too expensive.ypg schrieb:
As already mentioned: Living spaces generally cannot be built on the property line (usually 3 meters / 10 ft) to the neighbor. What type of building is that at the neighbor’s? If the barn is removed for a new build, you would have to be 6 meters (20 ft) away with living spaces from that building... at least that’s my understanding.Same understanding here. That is also why we were leaning toward converting the barn; then the wall construction wouldn’t change, only what happens behind it. We assumed fewer problems than with a new build. The neighbor has his garage there. Otherwise, just lawn around. I believe the distance requirements for garage to house differ. But I don’t know for sure. Anyway, the architect didn’t see it as a problem. What won’t work are windows facing the neighbor, which means it would have to be windows on only two sides and/or roof windows.ypg schrieb:
If it’s an extension.You mean brick-to-brick/wood-to-wood contact, or is it also considered an extension if utilities/electrical are connected?I would like to sincerely thank you again for your effort and look forward to hearing your ideas!!!!
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