Good day,
I am currently planning a new heating system in North Rhine-Westphalia and have received several quotes.
At the moment, a gas heating system is in use, which will soon need to be replaced. The plan is to replace it with a heat pump.
The heat distribution system is underfloor heating covering 190 m² (2,045 sq ft) over two levels, and radiator heating for an outbuilding of about 40 m² (430 sq ft), which is usually only heated minimally (maintained between approximately 4 and 8°C (39°F to 46°F) during winter).
Additionally, a photovoltaic system of around 10 kWp, with the option to expand in the future, will be installed.
Currently, I have the following five estimates, which differ greatly both technically and in price.
(All prices include VAT.)
As a layperson, I naturally have little knowledge in this area and would appreciate advice on which offer is reasonable.
Furthermore, the various proposed heat pumps use different refrigerants: What should I pay attention to in this regard?
And more generally: What would you recommend?
Which brand is considered the best? Are there any that you would advise against?
Thank you very much in advance!
Best regards,
Lukas
1) Chofu with 16 kW (18,000 €)
(Installable this year)
CHOFU monoblock heat pump 16 kW
Refrigerant: R32
Switching valve
35 m (115 ft) piping
35 mm (1.4 inch) fittings
Including connection materials and installation
2) Bosch with 14.8 kW (26,400 €)
(Installable next January)
BOSCH split heat pump SAS 13-2 ASE, 14.8 kW, monovalent
Refrigerant: R410A
2x BOSCH remote controls/room controllers CR 10 H
BOSCH refrigerant lines SAS 3/8" and 5/8"
Wall mounting brackets for air/water heat pump
JUNKERS hot water switching valve 22-1 for heat pumps
Membrane expansion tank 25 l (6.6 gallons), silver, max. 3 bar
FLAMCO Flexcon suspension frame type MB 3
Logafix cap ball valve MK 3/4"
XStream vent-clean (DN20) K22
Pump group UK 1", without pump
Pump group MK 1", without pump
BOSCH mixing module MM 200 for 2 heating circuits
2x Grundfos circulation pumps Alpha1 25-60 180230V
2x Grundfos Alpha right-angle plugs, 4 m (13 ft) cable
Distributor bar for up to 3 heating circuits
BWT storage connection set 3/4" M KS 1267-34 M with 6 bar safety valve
Various pipes, fittings, and connectors
System filling according to ÖNORM
Work time: installation and connection of heat pump including accessories
Commissioning by factory service
3) IDM with 10 to 24 kW (45,000 €)
(Installable next March)
IDM AERO ALM heat pump 10-24 kW, modulating
Accessories AERO AL 10-24 (buffer tank, etc.)
Refrigerant: R290
3 x large-surface radiators
Various materials
Commissioning
Underfloor heating manifold
Small materials
Work time
4) IDM with 8 to 17 kW (30,000 €)
(Installable next December)
IDM AERO SLM heat pump 6-17 kW, with NAVIGATOR 2.0
Equipment variant HGL
Refrigerant: R410A
Commissioning
Room unit for one heating circuit to NAVIGATOR
EIB-KNX module
Air separator
Magnetic sludge separator
Refrigerant connection lines, length 5 m (16 ft)
Distributor for underfloor heating
5) Saunier Duval with 12 kW (25,000 €)
(Installable this October)
Saunier Duval heat pump with 12 kW
Refrigerant: R410A
3 x large-surface radiators
Various materials
Commissioning
Underfloor heating manifold
Work time
I am currently planning a new heating system in North Rhine-Westphalia and have received several quotes.
At the moment, a gas heating system is in use, which will soon need to be replaced. The plan is to replace it with a heat pump.
The heat distribution system is underfloor heating covering 190 m² (2,045 sq ft) over two levels, and radiator heating for an outbuilding of about 40 m² (430 sq ft), which is usually only heated minimally (maintained between approximately 4 and 8°C (39°F to 46°F) during winter).
Additionally, a photovoltaic system of around 10 kWp, with the option to expand in the future, will be installed.
Currently, I have the following five estimates, which differ greatly both technically and in price.
(All prices include VAT.)
As a layperson, I naturally have little knowledge in this area and would appreciate advice on which offer is reasonable.
Furthermore, the various proposed heat pumps use different refrigerants: What should I pay attention to in this regard?
And more generally: What would you recommend?
Which brand is considered the best? Are there any that you would advise against?
Thank you very much in advance!
Best regards,
Lukas
1) Chofu with 16 kW (18,000 €)
(Installable this year)
CHOFU monoblock heat pump 16 kW
Refrigerant: R32
Switching valve
35 m (115 ft) piping
35 mm (1.4 inch) fittings
Including connection materials and installation
2) Bosch with 14.8 kW (26,400 €)
(Installable next January)
BOSCH split heat pump SAS 13-2 ASE, 14.8 kW, monovalent
Refrigerant: R410A
2x BOSCH remote controls/room controllers CR 10 H
BOSCH refrigerant lines SAS 3/8" and 5/8"
Wall mounting brackets for air/water heat pump
JUNKERS hot water switching valve 22-1 for heat pumps
Membrane expansion tank 25 l (6.6 gallons), silver, max. 3 bar
FLAMCO Flexcon suspension frame type MB 3
Logafix cap ball valve MK 3/4"
XStream vent-clean (DN20) K22
Pump group UK 1", without pump
Pump group MK 1", without pump
BOSCH mixing module MM 200 for 2 heating circuits
2x Grundfos circulation pumps Alpha1 25-60 180230V
2x Grundfos Alpha right-angle plugs, 4 m (13 ft) cable
Distributor bar for up to 3 heating circuits
BWT storage connection set 3/4" M KS 1267-34 M with 6 bar safety valve
Various pipes, fittings, and connectors
System filling according to ÖNORM
Work time: installation and connection of heat pump including accessories
Commissioning by factory service
3) IDM with 10 to 24 kW (45,000 €)
(Installable next March)
IDM AERO ALM heat pump 10-24 kW, modulating
Accessories AERO AL 10-24 (buffer tank, etc.)
Refrigerant: R290
3 x large-surface radiators
Various materials
Commissioning
Underfloor heating manifold
Small materials
Work time
4) IDM with 8 to 17 kW (30,000 €)
(Installable next December)
IDM AERO SLM heat pump 6-17 kW, with NAVIGATOR 2.0
Equipment variant HGL
Refrigerant: R410A
Commissioning
Room unit for one heating circuit to NAVIGATOR
EIB-KNX module
Air separator
Magnetic sludge separator
Refrigerant connection lines, length 5 m (16 ft)
Distributor for underfloor heating
5) Saunier Duval with 12 kW (25,000 €)
(Installable this October)
Saunier Duval heat pump with 12 kW
Refrigerant: R410A
3 x large-surface radiators
Various materials
Commissioning
Underfloor heating manifold
Work time
L
Lukas453629 Aug 2022 10:50No, it’s not a hairdresser. But it is true that at least 4 hours of bathing take place every day. And that can’t be changed.
I am currently using the website heizreport.de to calculate the heating load and also calling building contractors to get an independent professional heating load calculation as soon as possible.
Still, my question is: what does the term modulating mean in relation to heat pumps?
I am currently using the website heizreport.de to calculate the heating load and also calling building contractors to get an independent professional heating load calculation as soon as possible.
Still, my question is: what does the term modulating mean in relation to heat pumps?
L
Lukas453629 Aug 2022 10:54SaniererNRW123 schrieb:
The professional would easily undersize and leave out the buffer.Is it possible that with undersizing, the system might not be able to reach the desired temperature in winter (to put it simply)?
L
Lukas453629 Aug 2022 18:03One much more fundamental question:
Assuming that not only underfloor heating should provide constant heating but also radiators need to prevent freezing, occasionally warm up a room, and possibly in the future keep a room heated constantly,
is a heat pump generally the preferred solution?
As far as I know, a heat pump is designed for a constant heating load and does not handle fluctuations well.
If not, which type of heating system would then be recommended?
Assuming that not only underfloor heating should provide constant heating but also radiators need to prevent freezing, occasionally warm up a room, and possibly in the future keep a room heated constantly,
is a heat pump generally the preferred solution?
As far as I know, a heat pump is designed for a constant heating load and does not handle fluctuations well.
If not, which type of heating system would then be recommended?
S
SaniererNRW1239 Aug 2022 21:11Lukas45362 schrieb:
Is it possible that with undersizing, the system won’t be able to reach the “desired warmth” in winter (to put it simply)? No. The heating load is calculated based on your standard outdoor temperature, so it can achieve the desired indoor temperature of 20-22°C (68-72°F) even at -13°C (9°F) without using an additional electric heating element. If necessary, it can even provide more. How often does it actually stay that cold—also during daytime—in your area? If that really happens, the installed electric heating element can provide supplementary heat. So the building will always stay warm.
The advantage is that the heat pump is better matched for normal temperatures than a larger unit.
Lukas45362 schrieb:
Assuming that it’s not only a floor heating system that should maintain a constant temperature, but also radiators that need to guarantee frost protection and occasionally heat a room up, and maybe in the future even keep a room at a constant temperature—
is a heat pump generally the right solution in that case? No, not generally. But I would recommend not connecting the room that needs to be tempered or occasionally heated to the heat pump anyway. This is because a heat pump delivers only a low flow temperature, and it won’t be helpful if you want the room warm now, but it only reaches that temperature after two hours (and a small radiator might not even manage that). There are other solutions for these situations, such as infrared heating panels for quick heating.
L
Lukas453629 Aug 2022 22:51So, not connecting the outbuilding? Can I basically guarantee frost protection using infrared panels? Or would electric convectors be a better option?
Just for your information: I already have huge radiators in those rooms (30 cm (12 inches) deep, 2 m (6.5 feet) long, 1 m (3.3 feet) high) designed for low-temperature heating flow. Using these with a digital thermostat set to, for example, 5°C (41°F) doesn’t make sense?
Just for your information: I already have huge radiators in those rooms (30 cm (12 inches) deep, 2 m (6.5 feet) long, 1 m (3.3 feet) high) designed for low-temperature heating flow. Using these with a digital thermostat set to, for example, 5°C (41°F) doesn’t make sense?
S
SaniererNRW1239 Aug 2022 23:03Lukas45362 schrieb:
So, not connecting the outbuilding to the main building? Can IR panels then basically guarantee frost protection? Or would electric convectors be a better option? If you want to use a heat pump for this, you need a heat pump with two circuits. I can’t really judge how well the heat pump will perform (you also need to consider the heating load of the outbuilding) with two very different room temperatures. Just to guess — and I would say it won’t run efficiently.
What I haven’t quite understood yet is the exact type of frost-protected space or outbuilding you want. What exactly is it, since you keep using different terms? A room or a building? One room or several? Frost protection only or do you sometimes need proper heating? What is inside the building or room(s) that makes you concerned?
You could also install a single split air conditioning unit (indoor unit with two core drill holes to the outside). That way, you would be independent from the main heating system. But as I said, I still don’t fully understand what exactly you need.
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