Good day,
I am currently planning a new heating system in North Rhine-Westphalia and have received several quotes.
At the moment, a gas heating system is in use, which will soon need to be replaced. The plan is to replace it with a heat pump.
The heat distribution system is underfloor heating covering 190 m² (2,045 sq ft) over two levels, and radiator heating for an outbuilding of about 40 m² (430 sq ft), which is usually only heated minimally (maintained between approximately 4 and 8°C (39°F to 46°F) during winter).
Additionally, a photovoltaic system of around 10 kWp, with the option to expand in the future, will be installed.
Currently, I have the following five estimates, which differ greatly both technically and in price.
(All prices include VAT.)
As a layperson, I naturally have little knowledge in this area and would appreciate advice on which offer is reasonable.
Furthermore, the various proposed heat pumps use different refrigerants: What should I pay attention to in this regard?
And more generally: What would you recommend?
Which brand is considered the best? Are there any that you would advise against?
Thank you very much in advance!
Best regards,
Lukas
1) Chofu with 16 kW (18,000 €)
(Installable this year)
CHOFU monoblock heat pump 16 kW
Refrigerant: R32
Switching valve
35 m (115 ft) piping
35 mm (1.4 inch) fittings
Including connection materials and installation
2) Bosch with 14.8 kW (26,400 €)
(Installable next January)
BOSCH split heat pump SAS 13-2 ASE, 14.8 kW, monovalent
Refrigerant: R410A
2x BOSCH remote controls/room controllers CR 10 H
BOSCH refrigerant lines SAS 3/8" and 5/8"
Wall mounting brackets for air/water heat pump
JUNKERS hot water switching valve 22-1 for heat pumps
Membrane expansion tank 25 l (6.6 gallons), silver, max. 3 bar
FLAMCO Flexcon suspension frame type MB 3
Logafix cap ball valve MK 3/4"
XStream vent-clean (DN20) K22
Pump group UK 1", without pump
Pump group MK 1", without pump
BOSCH mixing module MM 200 for 2 heating circuits
2x Grundfos circulation pumps Alpha1 25-60 180230V
2x Grundfos Alpha right-angle plugs, 4 m (13 ft) cable
Distributor bar for up to 3 heating circuits
BWT storage connection set 3/4" M KS 1267-34 M with 6 bar safety valve
Various pipes, fittings, and connectors
System filling according to ÖNORM
Work time: installation and connection of heat pump including accessories
Commissioning by factory service
3) IDM with 10 to 24 kW (45,000 €)
(Installable next March)
IDM AERO ALM heat pump 10-24 kW, modulating
Accessories AERO AL 10-24 (buffer tank, etc.)
Refrigerant: R290
3 x large-surface radiators
Various materials
Commissioning
Underfloor heating manifold
Small materials
Work time
4) IDM with 8 to 17 kW (30,000 €)
(Installable next December)
IDM AERO SLM heat pump 6-17 kW, with NAVIGATOR 2.0
Equipment variant HGL
Refrigerant: R410A
Commissioning
Room unit for one heating circuit to NAVIGATOR
EIB-KNX module
Air separator
Magnetic sludge separator
Refrigerant connection lines, length 5 m (16 ft)
Distributor for underfloor heating
5) Saunier Duval with 12 kW (25,000 €)
(Installable this October)
Saunier Duval heat pump with 12 kW
Refrigerant: R410A
3 x large-surface radiators
Various materials
Commissioning
Underfloor heating manifold
Work time
I am currently planning a new heating system in North Rhine-Westphalia and have received several quotes.
At the moment, a gas heating system is in use, which will soon need to be replaced. The plan is to replace it with a heat pump.
The heat distribution system is underfloor heating covering 190 m² (2,045 sq ft) over two levels, and radiator heating for an outbuilding of about 40 m² (430 sq ft), which is usually only heated minimally (maintained between approximately 4 and 8°C (39°F to 46°F) during winter).
Additionally, a photovoltaic system of around 10 kWp, with the option to expand in the future, will be installed.
Currently, I have the following five estimates, which differ greatly both technically and in price.
(All prices include VAT.)
As a layperson, I naturally have little knowledge in this area and would appreciate advice on which offer is reasonable.
Furthermore, the various proposed heat pumps use different refrigerants: What should I pay attention to in this regard?
And more generally: What would you recommend?
Which brand is considered the best? Are there any that you would advise against?
Thank you very much in advance!
Best regards,
Lukas
1) Chofu with 16 kW (18,000 €)
(Installable this year)
CHOFU monoblock heat pump 16 kW
Refrigerant: R32
Switching valve
35 m (115 ft) piping
35 mm (1.4 inch) fittings
Including connection materials and installation
2) Bosch with 14.8 kW (26,400 €)
(Installable next January)
BOSCH split heat pump SAS 13-2 ASE, 14.8 kW, monovalent
Refrigerant: R410A
2x BOSCH remote controls/room controllers CR 10 H
BOSCH refrigerant lines SAS 3/8" and 5/8"
Wall mounting brackets for air/water heat pump
JUNKERS hot water switching valve 22-1 for heat pumps
Membrane expansion tank 25 l (6.6 gallons), silver, max. 3 bar
FLAMCO Flexcon suspension frame type MB 3
Logafix cap ball valve MK 3/4"
XStream vent-clean (DN20) K22
Pump group UK 1", without pump
Pump group MK 1", without pump
BOSCH mixing module MM 200 for 2 heating circuits
2x Grundfos circulation pumps Alpha1 25-60 180230V
2x Grundfos Alpha right-angle plugs, 4 m (13 ft) cable
Distributor bar for up to 3 heating circuits
BWT storage connection set 3/4" M KS 1267-34 M with 6 bar safety valve
Various pipes, fittings, and connectors
System filling according to ÖNORM
Work time: installation and connection of heat pump including accessories
Commissioning by factory service
3) IDM with 10 to 24 kW (45,000 €)
(Installable next March)
IDM AERO ALM heat pump 10-24 kW, modulating
Accessories AERO AL 10-24 (buffer tank, etc.)
Refrigerant: R290
3 x large-surface radiators
Various materials
Commissioning
Underfloor heating manifold
Small materials
Work time
4) IDM with 8 to 17 kW (30,000 €)
(Installable next December)
IDM AERO SLM heat pump 6-17 kW, with NAVIGATOR 2.0
Equipment variant HGL
Refrigerant: R410A
Commissioning
Room unit for one heating circuit to NAVIGATOR
EIB-KNX module
Air separator
Magnetic sludge separator
Refrigerant connection lines, length 5 m (16 ft)
Distributor for underfloor heating
5) Saunier Duval with 12 kW (25,000 €)
(Installable this October)
Saunier Duval heat pump with 12 kW
Refrigerant: R410A
3 x large-surface radiators
Various materials
Commissioning
Underfloor heating manifold
Work time
L
Lukas453627 Aug 2022 21:59The ceiling and windows have good insulation. The heating is set relatively high because two elderly people will live in the house, and they prefer it to be very warm (which I wouldn’t want to deny them at their age and considering their health).
What do you mean by hydraulic balancing? Is there no basement?
The outbuilding is only used occasionally (for example, plants are kept there in winter) and is not regularly inhabited. Occasionally, a guest may stay overnight in one room, and then that room is heated more.
In the future, it might be necessary to have a caregiver living there. They would sleep in that room, and I would need to heat the outbuilding (that room) in winter as well. Therefore, a larger heating capacity might be advisable, I think.
What do you mean by hydraulic balancing? Is there no basement?
The outbuilding is only used occasionally (for example, plants are kept there in winter) and is not regularly inhabited. Occasionally, a guest may stay overnight in one room, and then that room is heated more.
In the future, it might be necessary to have a caregiver living there. They would sleep in that room, and I would need to heat the outbuilding (that room) in winter as well. Therefore, a larger heating capacity might be advisable, I think.
L
Lukas453627 Aug 2022 22:00What should I consider regarding the supply temperature and future regulations related to the refrigerant R410A? Does it still make sense to install a new system using this refrigerant?
L
Lukas453627 Aug 2022 22:02A question about the IDM ALM Aero 10-24 heat pump: It is said that this heat pump is modulating and can vary in terms of heating output. Wouldn't this make it the most suitable option?
Okay, that also explains the high annual consumption.
Personally, I would have the heating load calculated using the specified room temperature by an engineering office. I would be surprised if the result significantly exceeded 10 kW.
I would probably not use the radiators in the outbuilding either, but install a split air conditioning system instead. These usually heat with a good SCOP, so their operating costs aren’t really high. Alternatively, design the radiators there for the lowest possible supply temperatures.
Look up thermal balancing. Then do it in winter.
One more question: What exactly do you mean when you say the gas heating system will soon be defective?
Yes, the winter will be expensive this year if it continues to be used. However, a significantly oversized heat pump that is poorly operated will be at least as costly.
Personally, I would have the heating load calculated using the specified room temperature by an engineering office. I would be surprised if the result significantly exceeded 10 kW.
I would probably not use the radiators in the outbuilding either, but install a split air conditioning system instead. These usually heat with a good SCOP, so their operating costs aren’t really high. Alternatively, design the radiators there for the lowest possible supply temperatures.
Look up thermal balancing. Then do it in winter.
One more question: What exactly do you mean when you say the gas heating system will soon be defective?
Yes, the winter will be expensive this year if it continues to be used. However, a significantly oversized heat pump that is poorly operated will be at least as costly.
L
Lukas453628 Aug 2022 23:26Regarding the heating load, I was already on the phone today arranging for a structural engineer to come by this week to calculate it.
Two plumbers I spoke with said they calculated the heating load based on the square meters, wall thickness, insulation, windows, room layout, heat emission system, and consumption, and both arrived at 17 kW.
So, heating the outbuilding with air? Wouldn’t it be better to improve insulation and finish it properly? (which will be unavoidable in the future anyway => see care support)
I checked again today: According to your information, wouldn’t the IDM Aero SLM 6-17 kW be the most suitable?
Or what does modulating mean? As I understand it, this means the system adjusts its output according to the conditions. Or am I wrong? If so, how should this be interpreted?
One more question: Why does a moderately operated heat pump have a shorter lifespan?
(Sorry if these questions seem simple to you. As I mentioned, I’m just a layperson.)
Two plumbers I spoke with said they calculated the heating load based on the square meters, wall thickness, insulation, windows, room layout, heat emission system, and consumption, and both arrived at 17 kW.
So, heating the outbuilding with air? Wouldn’t it be better to improve insulation and finish it properly? (which will be unavoidable in the future anyway => see care support)
I checked again today: According to your information, wouldn’t the IDM Aero SLM 6-17 kW be the most suitable?
Or what does modulating mean? As I understand it, this means the system adjusts its output according to the conditions. Or am I wrong? If so, how should this be interpreted?
One more question: Why does a moderately operated heat pump have a shorter lifespan?
(Sorry if these questions seem simple to you. As I mentioned, I’m just a layperson.)
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