ᐅ Experience with Shelly Pro Series vs. Homematic IP Wired vs. Bus Wiring Systems
Created on: 24 May 2022 14:58
S
Stravanzer
Hello everyone,
Currently, our shell construction is completed, and soon the electrician will start the rough installation.
We already had a few appointments beforehand where a “smart home” package was offered to me.
The electrician commissioned by the developer offered a complete KNX automation system for a “small additional cost” of about €15,000 (around $16,200).
This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, etc.
The high price discouraged me, so I decided to go with the conventional option.
My plan was/is to automate the following:
a) Operate and automate roller shutters/blinds using Shelly flush-mounted actuators, possibly also controlled by a weather station
b) Control some sockets (especially in our child’s room) using Shelly devices with timed on/off switching
c) Manage lighting through Philips Hue
I am still not completely happy with my decision for conventional wiring.
It bothers me that I have different manufacturers involved, which makes central administration rather unlikely, at least as far as I know. (Is there a way to centralize control for my purposes? If yes, please let me know 🙂 )
Also, the automation would always run over Wi-Fi. I would much prefer a wired solution.
In this context, I looked into the Shelly Pro series.
This is basically the “wired” version, which should be enough for my modest requirements.
Has anyone here worked with these devices or, even better, installed them?
There are some YouTube videos, but mostly single examples, and not very conclusive.
I also really like the Homematic IP wired system. It would allow central control installed in the distribution board (DIN rail). However, here too, there are issues with the connection and required inspections.
The more I think about it, the more I consider having the electrician install bus wiring after all, while I set up the network and server infrastructure myself.
Wiring a patch panel and switch is not a problem for me.
However, I have some doubts about whether I have enough experience to connect the server myself.
Furthermore, there is the challenge of designing and programming the system and routines.
Basically, I am technically inclined and can read into certain things.
I wouldn’t shy away from it but am unsure whether I might be in over my head?!?
Besides, everything would have to be certified by a licensed electrician!
I told the electrician about my plan; he generally has no problem with it, but I would need to install the cables in the basement myself.
He said he wouldn’t connect any hardware he did not supply or install himself, for warranty and liability reasons.
My suspicion is that he makes less profit with this variant and that’s why he said this... and everything would still need approval anyway. Whether this will go smoothly... I have no idea.
For my part, I want everything properly certified, also because of insurance and similar concerns.
My question now:
Is a KNX-based bus solution “overkill” for what I want to do, or are WLAN Shelly devices sufficient to integrate performance data into the FritzBox?
An Ubiquiti PoE ceiling access point is planned/being installed on every floor. So, hopefully, Wi-Fi connection will be sufficient if I end up going with just the flush-mounted Shelly devices.
Maybe some of you have tips, suggestions, or ideas...
I would like to thank you in advance for a constructive discussion.
Best regards,
Tom
Currently, our shell construction is completed, and soon the electrician will start the rough installation.
We already had a few appointments beforehand where a “smart home” package was offered to me.
The electrician commissioned by the developer offered a complete KNX automation system for a “small additional cost” of about €15,000 (around $16,200).
This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, etc.
The high price discouraged me, so I decided to go with the conventional option.
My plan was/is to automate the following:
a) Operate and automate roller shutters/blinds using Shelly flush-mounted actuators, possibly also controlled by a weather station
b) Control some sockets (especially in our child’s room) using Shelly devices with timed on/off switching
c) Manage lighting through Philips Hue
I am still not completely happy with my decision for conventional wiring.
It bothers me that I have different manufacturers involved, which makes central administration rather unlikely, at least as far as I know. (Is there a way to centralize control for my purposes? If yes, please let me know 🙂 )
Also, the automation would always run over Wi-Fi. I would much prefer a wired solution.
In this context, I looked into the Shelly Pro series.
This is basically the “wired” version, which should be enough for my modest requirements.
Has anyone here worked with these devices or, even better, installed them?
There are some YouTube videos, but mostly single examples, and not very conclusive.
I also really like the Homematic IP wired system. It would allow central control installed in the distribution board (DIN rail). However, here too, there are issues with the connection and required inspections.
The more I think about it, the more I consider having the electrician install bus wiring after all, while I set up the network and server infrastructure myself.
Wiring a patch panel and switch is not a problem for me.
However, I have some doubts about whether I have enough experience to connect the server myself.
Furthermore, there is the challenge of designing and programming the system and routines.
Basically, I am technically inclined and can read into certain things.
I wouldn’t shy away from it but am unsure whether I might be in over my head?!?
Besides, everything would have to be certified by a licensed electrician!
I told the electrician about my plan; he generally has no problem with it, but I would need to install the cables in the basement myself.
He said he wouldn’t connect any hardware he did not supply or install himself, for warranty and liability reasons.
My suspicion is that he makes less profit with this variant and that’s why he said this... and everything would still need approval anyway. Whether this will go smoothly... I have no idea.
For my part, I want everything properly certified, also because of insurance and similar concerns.
My question now:
Is a KNX-based bus solution “overkill” for what I want to do, or are WLAN Shelly devices sufficient to integrate performance data into the FritzBox?
An Ubiquiti PoE ceiling access point is planned/being installed on every floor. So, hopefully, Wi-Fi connection will be sufficient if I end up going with just the flush-mounted Shelly devices.
Maybe some of you have tips, suggestions, or ideas...
I would like to thank you in advance for a constructive discussion.
Best regards,
Tom
Stravanzer schrieb:
He said that any hardware he does not procure/install himself, he also does not connect for later warranty purposes, etc.This is actually a stroke of luck for you: you can practically source all the sensors yourself, and since the bus system is only powered by low voltage, you can install it yourself without any concerns. That’s what I did as well, although I wasn’t allowed to source everything on my own...
DaHias81 schrieb:
I’m not trying to convince anyone, everyone can do what they want. But what you’re writing here is simply not correct.
I’m an end user with no IT background. Last year, our new build was equipped with KNX. I bought the ETS Home software for €250 and then started working with KNX. And that was only in the actual house (for various reasons, I didn’t manage to build a test setup beforehand, as it’s often recommended). Until we moved in, all conventional functions and those important for the family’s operation worked fine. The automation and logic features that really make it fun have been added step by step since then. I had done a lot of reading and watching beforehand. But I want to be able to do it myself and not have to pay an electrician for every small request.
Regarding the server: the good thing is that you don’t need one for the basic functions – everything is handled by the sensors and actuators. I’ve only had a Raspberry Pi running Node-RED for the more advanced stuff for a few months now. But if that fails, the essential functions still work for the weekend. So far, I don’t know of any case where a server has failed without external causes, even devices that are over 10 years old. What exactly could break? The SD card, yes, but that’s not only a Loxone issue (see Solarlog, where it gets quite expensive). You just remove the card, insert the backup card, and it works again. Other than that, well, you probably know more cases where a Miniserver failed without external influence.
Anyone who can program KNX can also restore an SD card from backup; nowadays, with Loxone, that’s even quite easy for beginners.
Stravanzer14 Aug 2022 11:00Mycraft schrieb:
Too bad, you might have found someone who really knows their stuff and would build everything exactly to your wishes (and even more things you haven't thought of yet), but you let the opportunity pass. Others in the forum are constantly looking for something like that. Just some thoughts...Hello Mycraft,
in the end, I decided to go with the KNX option. Together with the electrician, we adjusted the hardware again to fit our needs, so now the cost is just under €13,000 (about $14,000). I think everyone can live with that.
There is still the option to do the configuration myself. That means the electrician will handle the basic settings, and after a briefing, I will do the fine tuning myself.
This will reduce the labor costs somewhat, which are currently included in the offer as "depending on effort."
I think it turned out to be a fair compromise.
Yes, if you find someone who really knows their stuff, the costs usually aren’t that high (as long as the expectations aren’t unrealistic). Since that person generally knows what is feasible and what isn’t, and how to use the devices across different systems instead of using shutter actuators only for shutters and switches only for manual control.
B
Bayernbors18 Nov 2022 23:12Stravanzer schrieb:
That's why I’ve always been somewhat interested in the Shelly Pros, since they have a LAN port and can be clipped onto the DIN rail inside the consumer unit.I am now also considering the Shelly Pros, but I haven’t discussed this with the electrician yet.
May I ask why you ultimately decided against the Shelly Pro?
Stravanzer8 Dec 2022 10:04Bayernbors schrieb:
I am now also considering the Shelly Pros, but I have not yet discussed this with the electrician.
May I ask why you ultimately decided against the Shelly Pro? Hi,
sorry for the late reply. I haven’t been very active here lately.
One of my reasons against the Shelly system is that the roller shutters cannot be controlled in a granular way.
I also get the impression that Shelly automations are more suited for hobbyists and tinkerers. For my part, I want to set a basic configuration that is fixed but can be expanded as needed.
Furthermore, the KNX solution offers virtually unlimited possibilities and adaptation for the entire home electrical system and smart home functionality.
For a house building project with a budget of about 750,000€ (approximately $810,000), investing 15,000 to 20,000€ (about $16,200 to $21,600) in this regard is, at least, future-proof. Usually, you only build a house once in your life. But of course, there are exceptions... 😀
Best regards