ᐅ Experience with Shelly Pro Series vs. Homematic IP Wired vs. Bus Wiring Systems
Created on: 24 May 2022 14:58
S
Stravanzer
Hello everyone,
Currently, our shell construction is completed, and soon the electrician will start the rough installation.
We already had a few appointments beforehand where a “smart home” package was offered to me.
The electrician commissioned by the developer offered a complete KNX automation system for a “small additional cost” of about €15,000 (around $16,200).
This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, etc.
The high price discouraged me, so I decided to go with the conventional option.
My plan was/is to automate the following:
a) Operate and automate roller shutters/blinds using Shelly flush-mounted actuators, possibly also controlled by a weather station
b) Control some sockets (especially in our child’s room) using Shelly devices with timed on/off switching
c) Manage lighting through Philips Hue
I am still not completely happy with my decision for conventional wiring.
It bothers me that I have different manufacturers involved, which makes central administration rather unlikely, at least as far as I know. (Is there a way to centralize control for my purposes? If yes, please let me know 🙂 )
Also, the automation would always run over Wi-Fi. I would much prefer a wired solution.
In this context, I looked into the Shelly Pro series.
This is basically the “wired” version, which should be enough for my modest requirements.
Has anyone here worked with these devices or, even better, installed them?
There are some YouTube videos, but mostly single examples, and not very conclusive.
I also really like the Homematic IP wired system. It would allow central control installed in the distribution board (DIN rail). However, here too, there are issues with the connection and required inspections.
The more I think about it, the more I consider having the electrician install bus wiring after all, while I set up the network and server infrastructure myself.
Wiring a patch panel and switch is not a problem for me.
However, I have some doubts about whether I have enough experience to connect the server myself.
Furthermore, there is the challenge of designing and programming the system and routines.
Basically, I am technically inclined and can read into certain things.
I wouldn’t shy away from it but am unsure whether I might be in over my head?!?
Besides, everything would have to be certified by a licensed electrician!
I told the electrician about my plan; he generally has no problem with it, but I would need to install the cables in the basement myself.
He said he wouldn’t connect any hardware he did not supply or install himself, for warranty and liability reasons.
My suspicion is that he makes less profit with this variant and that’s why he said this... and everything would still need approval anyway. Whether this will go smoothly... I have no idea.
For my part, I want everything properly certified, also because of insurance and similar concerns.
My question now:
Is a KNX-based bus solution “overkill” for what I want to do, or are WLAN Shelly devices sufficient to integrate performance data into the FritzBox?
An Ubiquiti PoE ceiling access point is planned/being installed on every floor. So, hopefully, Wi-Fi connection will be sufficient if I end up going with just the flush-mounted Shelly devices.
Maybe some of you have tips, suggestions, or ideas...
I would like to thank you in advance for a constructive discussion.
Best regards,
Tom
Currently, our shell construction is completed, and soon the electrician will start the rough installation.
We already had a few appointments beforehand where a “smart home” package was offered to me.
The electrician commissioned by the developer offered a complete KNX automation system for a “small additional cost” of about €15,000 (around $16,200).
This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, etc.
The high price discouraged me, so I decided to go with the conventional option.
My plan was/is to automate the following:
a) Operate and automate roller shutters/blinds using Shelly flush-mounted actuators, possibly also controlled by a weather station
b) Control some sockets (especially in our child’s room) using Shelly devices with timed on/off switching
c) Manage lighting through Philips Hue
I am still not completely happy with my decision for conventional wiring.
It bothers me that I have different manufacturers involved, which makes central administration rather unlikely, at least as far as I know. (Is there a way to centralize control for my purposes? If yes, please let me know 🙂 )
Also, the automation would always run over Wi-Fi. I would much prefer a wired solution.
In this context, I looked into the Shelly Pro series.
This is basically the “wired” version, which should be enough for my modest requirements.
Has anyone here worked with these devices or, even better, installed them?
There are some YouTube videos, but mostly single examples, and not very conclusive.
I also really like the Homematic IP wired system. It would allow central control installed in the distribution board (DIN rail). However, here too, there are issues with the connection and required inspections.
The more I think about it, the more I consider having the electrician install bus wiring after all, while I set up the network and server infrastructure myself.
Wiring a patch panel and switch is not a problem for me.
However, I have some doubts about whether I have enough experience to connect the server myself.
Furthermore, there is the challenge of designing and programming the system and routines.
Basically, I am technically inclined and can read into certain things.
I wouldn’t shy away from it but am unsure whether I might be in over my head?!?
Besides, everything would have to be certified by a licensed electrician!
I told the electrician about my plan; he generally has no problem with it, but I would need to install the cables in the basement myself.
He said he wouldn’t connect any hardware he did not supply or install himself, for warranty and liability reasons.
My suspicion is that he makes less profit with this variant and that’s why he said this... and everything would still need approval anyway. Whether this will go smoothly... I have no idea.
For my part, I want everything properly certified, also because of insurance and similar concerns.
My question now:
Is a KNX-based bus solution “overkill” for what I want to do, or are WLAN Shelly devices sufficient to integrate performance data into the FritzBox?
An Ubiquiti PoE ceiling access point is planned/being installed on every floor. So, hopefully, Wi-Fi connection will be sufficient if I end up going with just the flush-mounted Shelly devices.
Maybe some of you have tips, suggestions, or ideas...
I would like to thank you in advance for a constructive discussion.
Best regards,
Tom
I faced a similar question and, mainly for cost reasons, chose the Smart Home Light version:
# Shutters and venetian blinds controlled via Shelly devices. When selecting the motors, make sure they are compatible (no radio system).
# This also allows for a simple central shutter switch using a Shelly i4.
# I will make a few sockets switchable with Shelly devices as well. The deep electrical boxes provide flexibility for later adjustments.
# Some effect lighting implemented with LED strips will also be controlled via Shelly RGBW.
# Since I already have Homematic IP & Philips Hue from my previous house, I will continue using them. Door sensors and, if needed, heating control e.g., via HMIP. Some lamps via Hue. Whether I would start with these today is questionable. Other manufacturers like Aqara also offer good and rather affordable components.
# I will replace part of Hue with Shelly devices. What annoys me about Hue is that you can no longer properly use the switches. When the light switch is off, the Hue lamp doesn’t turn on smartly. Shelly is better here because both functions work.
# Where I use Shelly, I install push buttons in the wall (lights, shutters), so the switch position no longer matters.
# Shelly devices in two-way switches require specific wiring that you should discuss with your electrician. The same applies if you want to automate motion detectors with Shelly devices.
# Many more possibilities open up if you add an automation system on top, like Home Assistant. But that can also be done later.
Because I was initially skeptical about Shelly devices, I purchased and tested some components in the old house, and they work flawlessly.
- Since stable and reliable Wi-Fi is necessary for Shelly devices, invest some of the money saved into good Wi-Fi components (e.g., Unify, TP-Link Omada, or similar).
- Install a good Wi-Fi access point on each floor in a suitable ceiling location to ensure good coverage. Plan these locations when laying the network cables. If no PoE (Power over Ethernet) is planned, also consider power connections.
- It’s best to separate Wi-Fi networks by setting up a dedicated network for smart home devices (supported by better access points).
- Assign fixed IP addresses to all Wi-Fi smart home components to keep track of them if the router restarts or you add more devices.
- It is important to install deep electrical boxes wherever possible, as this already provides many options.
# Shutters and venetian blinds controlled via Shelly devices. When selecting the motors, make sure they are compatible (no radio system).
# This also allows for a simple central shutter switch using a Shelly i4.
# I will make a few sockets switchable with Shelly devices as well. The deep electrical boxes provide flexibility for later adjustments.
# Some effect lighting implemented with LED strips will also be controlled via Shelly RGBW.
# Since I already have Homematic IP & Philips Hue from my previous house, I will continue using them. Door sensors and, if needed, heating control e.g., via HMIP. Some lamps via Hue. Whether I would start with these today is questionable. Other manufacturers like Aqara also offer good and rather affordable components.
# I will replace part of Hue with Shelly devices. What annoys me about Hue is that you can no longer properly use the switches. When the light switch is off, the Hue lamp doesn’t turn on smartly. Shelly is better here because both functions work.
# Where I use Shelly, I install push buttons in the wall (lights, shutters), so the switch position no longer matters.
# Shelly devices in two-way switches require specific wiring that you should discuss with your electrician. The same applies if you want to automate motion detectors with Shelly devices.
# Many more possibilities open up if you add an automation system on top, like Home Assistant. But that can also be done later.
Because I was initially skeptical about Shelly devices, I purchased and tested some components in the old house, and they work flawlessly.
- Since stable and reliable Wi-Fi is necessary for Shelly devices, invest some of the money saved into good Wi-Fi components (e.g., Unify, TP-Link Omada, or similar).
- Install a good Wi-Fi access point on each floor in a suitable ceiling location to ensure good coverage. Plan these locations when laying the network cables. If no PoE (Power over Ethernet) is planned, also consider power connections.
- It’s best to separate Wi-Fi networks by setting up a dedicated network for smart home devices (supported by better access points).
- Assign fixed IP addresses to all Wi-Fi smart home components to keep track of them if the router restarts or you add more devices.
- It is important to install deep electrical boxes wherever possible, as this already provides many options.
Stravanzer23 Jun 2022 13:47JaiBee07 schrieb:
I faced a similar question and mainly chose the Smart Home Light version for cost reasons.Thank you for your detailed response. My situation will be similar.JaiBee07 schrieb:
# Roller shutters and venetian blinds controlled via Shelly devices. Make sure to choose motors that are compatible (no radio systems).I have a total of 19 roller shutters/venetian blinds. I would have preferred a wired solution here. That's why I’ve been keeping an eye on the Shelly Pro models, since they have a LAN port and can be snapped onto the DIN rail in the distribution board. However, their prices are still quite high at the moment. Also, the entire power supply for all roller shutters/venetian blinds would need to be routed in the sub-distribution board. I’m not sure if the electrician is willing to do that.JaiBee07 schrieb:
# A few sockets will also be made switchable via Shelly; the deep installation boxes allow for flexible changes later on.I will implement that as well. Some sockets, especially those used by the "teenage kids."JaiBee07 schrieb:
# I will replace some Hue devices with Shelly. What annoys me about Hue is that you can no longer properly use the switches. When the light switch is off, the Hue lamp no longer works smartly. Shelly handles this better—you can do both.Interesting! How is that achieved? I haven’t found any information about this online yet... Currently, I’m also using Hue motion sensors, but I dislike that they cannot be installed flush-mounted, similar to the Shelly motion sensors.JaiBee07 schrieb:
# Shelly devices in two-way switch circuits require specific wiring, so you should discuss this with your electrician.Are you referring to the neutral conductor here?JaiBee07 schrieb:
The same applies if you want to automate motion sensors together with Shelly devices.Am I correct in assuming that any conventional flush-mounted motion detector can be controlled with a Shelly? Unfortunately, I have no information on this yet either.JaiBee07 schrieb:
- Since Shelly devices require good and stable Wi-Fi, invest some of the saved money in quality Wi-Fi components (e.g., Unifi or TP-Link Omada or similar).
- Install a good Wi-Fi access point on each floor at a suitable ceiling location to ensure good coverage; plan these locations when routing network cables. If PoE isn’t planned, also consider power supply early on.
- Ideally, separate the Wi-Fi networks by creating a dedicated network for smart home devices (advanced access points usually support this).
- Assign fixed IP addresses to all Wi-Fi smarthome* devices to keep track, especially as their number grows and if the router restarts.That will definitely be the case. On each floor (basement, ground floor, upper floor, plus garage and garden), a Ubiquiti PoE Wi-Fi 6 long-range access point will be mounted on the ceiling. This should provide strong Wi-Fi coverage. A dedicated network for smart devices and fixed IP assignments are also planned. I consider myself well prepared for this scope.JaiBee07 schrieb:
- It is important to install deep mounting boxes everywhere possible, depending on the installation situation. This provides many options.Only deep flush-mounted boxes will be installed.Stravanzer schrieb:
In total, I have 19 roller shutters/blinds. I would have preferred a wired version. That’s why I’ve been keeping an eye on the Shelly Pro devices, since they have a LAN connection and can be snapped onto the DIN rail in the sub-distribution board. However, the prices for those are still quite high. Also, the full power supply for all the roller shutters/blinds would need to be installed in the sub-distribution. I’m not sure if the electrician is willing to do that. It should be noted that many users are not completely satisfied with controlling blinds via a Shelly device. The reason is a small but variable WLAN latency between pressing the button and the motor starting. This results in imprecise control of the slats. There is a long thread about this in the Shelly Support Forum where a manufacturer improvement has been promised for a while but has not yet been satisfactorily implemented. This is something to be aware of before getting disappointed.
Stravanzer schrieb:
Interesting! How is that achievable? I haven’t found anything about it online so far… At the moment, I’m also using the HUE motion sensors. What bothers me is that unfortunately they can’t be installed flush-mounted, just like the Shelly motion sensors. Basically, it works through the normal function of the Shelly. The light switch is only connected to one input of the Shelly, and the Shelly itself handles switching on and off. So you can switch off via the light switch and still switch on again via the app. There is a similar module from Homematic, but it’s very expensive and battery-powered.
Stravanzer schrieb:
Are you possibly referring to the neutral conductor here? Definitely have the neutral conductor installed in every flush-mounted box. I can’t recall the exact details, but for some two-way or crossover switches, wiring with a Shelly is different. From what I remember, some users had too few conductors, and the electrician rightly refused to misuse the ground conductor.
Stravanzer schrieb:
Am I correct in assuming that any standard flush-mounted motion sensor can be connected to a Shelly? Unfortunately, I haven’t found any information on this either. Sort of. There are flush-mounted motion sensors that require a minimum load to switch properly. Since you’re connecting the Shelly to a high-impedance switching input and not directly driving an incandescent bulb, that load is missing. In the mentioned forum, there is a list of compatible motion sensors that definitely work. As a last resort, you can also place a switching relay in between, but it requires extra space and adds cost.
Good luck!
Stravanzer schrieb:
The electrician hired by the developer offered me a complete KNX automation system for a "small additional cost" of about €15,000 (approximately $16,000). This included the Gira X1 system with server, switches, wiring, documentation, and more. It’s a shame—you might have found someone who really knows their stuff and could build everything exactly to your requirements (plus features you haven’t even thought of yet), but you’re letting the opportunity pass by. Others in the forum are actually constantly looking for something like this. Just some food for thought…
A
akanezumi30 Jul 2022 10:45Please keep in mind during the planning phase that the house might be sold or at least lived in by other people at some point. Therefore, when building a new home, I would always recommend choosing something standardized, where you can be reasonably sure that even in 10 years, someone will still be available to assist you. For me, this basically means only KNX is an option. Possibly Loxone as well. However, that means relying on a single manufacturer.
A wireless solution feels wrong to me for a new build.
A wireless solution feels wrong to me for a new build.
Patricck schrieb:
That’s true, but not entirely. As an end user, you have access to the software and can customize it according to your preferences.
With KNX, you need a programmer who charges by the hour, especially for special requests. Depending on the scope, Loxone can actually be cheaper. I don't want to persuade anyone; everyone can do as they please. But what you’re saying here is simply not correct.
I am an end user with no IT background. We installed KNX in our new house last year. I bought the ETS Home software for €250 (about $270) and started working with KNX myself. And I only began in the actual house (for various reasons, I wasn’t able to build a test board beforehand, as is often recommended). Everything that works conventionally and was important for family use was up and running by move-in. The automation and logic functions that really make it enjoyable have been added step by step since then. I had read a lot and watched tutorials beforehand. But I wanted to be able to do it myself and not have to pay the electrician for every small request.
Regarding the server: the good thing is that you don’t need one for the basic functions – everything is handled within the sensors and actuators. I only set up a Raspberry Pi with Node-Red a few months ago for advanced features. But if it fails, the essential functions still work during the weekend.
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