Hello dear forum,
I need your advice on the following matter:
Last year, I had a house built through a general contractor. The contract did not include a canopy above the front door. Therefore, this year I arranged for a local craftsman to install a canopy, which I had configured and ordered through an online retailer. The installation by the craftsman was agreed upon separately.
When the craftsman was about to start the installation, I pointed out that there were cables in the area where the canopy would be mounted. I showed him a photo of the exterior wall before the plastering, after which the craftsman proposed a slightly higher position for the canopy compared to the original plan. I then said, "OK, let's do it that way." Unfortunately, it later turned out that a cable was still drilled into.
The craftsman’s position:
He claims no fault on his part, since I instructed him to install the canopy at that position. He could not have known that a cable was also located there. He places the responsibility on me as the client.
My position:
I am a layperson and have no knowledge of the exact methods for canopy installation or the usual rules for routing electrical wiring. Therefore, I am not able to assess a sensible mounting position. I saw the craftsman’s suggestion as expert advice, which I accepted. If something goes wrong, then he is the one responsible.
Since this might involve significant costs, I would be grateful for advice, possibly including references to legal principles.
I need your advice on the following matter:
Last year, I had a house built through a general contractor. The contract did not include a canopy above the front door. Therefore, this year I arranged for a local craftsman to install a canopy, which I had configured and ordered through an online retailer. The installation by the craftsman was agreed upon separately.
When the craftsman was about to start the installation, I pointed out that there were cables in the area where the canopy would be mounted. I showed him a photo of the exterior wall before the plastering, after which the craftsman proposed a slightly higher position for the canopy compared to the original plan. I then said, "OK, let's do it that way." Unfortunately, it later turned out that a cable was still drilled into.
The craftsman’s position:
He claims no fault on his part, since I instructed him to install the canopy at that position. He could not have known that a cable was also located there. He places the responsibility on me as the client.
My position:
I am a layperson and have no knowledge of the exact methods for canopy installation or the usual rules for routing electrical wiring. Therefore, I am not able to assess a sensible mounting position. I saw the craftsman’s suggestion as expert advice, which I accepted. If something goes wrong, then he is the one responsible.
Since this might involve significant costs, I would be grateful for advice, possibly including references to legal principles.
You want serious legal advice from the forum? You do realize that is reserved for professional advisors.
As I recall from my legal training, a tradesperson is liable for any damages they cause. But whether that liability is waived by your statement "okay, let's do it this way," I have no idea. Maybe they also said "at your own risk," and you don’t or can’t remember.
So if you want to know who is responsible, a lawyer or a court will have to decide. However, I suspect that sharing the costs with the electrician might be the more cost-effective solution. Especially since it wouldn’t have to be determined whether this was actually a professional service or just "neighborly help" offered through platforms like MyHammer or similar.
As I recall from my legal training, a tradesperson is liable for any damages they cause. But whether that liability is waived by your statement "okay, let's do it this way," I have no idea. Maybe they also said "at your own risk," and you don’t or can’t remember.
So if you want to know who is responsible, a lawyer or a court will have to decide. However, I suspect that sharing the costs with the electrician might be the more cost-effective solution. Especially since it wouldn’t have to be determined whether this was actually a professional service or just "neighborly help" offered through platforms like MyHammer or similar.
I’ll also throw the electrician who installed the wiring in the new build into the discussion. If they violated installation guidelines while laying the cables and this violation wasn’t visible during the final inspection, they might still be held accountable. Please note, this is a purely non-expert opinion!
I believe a quote from Myhammer is a fairly reliable indication that the work was carried out commercially.
Classified ads, on the other hand, are more complicated if the original poster placed the ad and the tradesperson merely responded—that’s true.
I believe a quote from Myhammer is a fairly reliable indication that the work was carried out commercially.
Classified ads, on the other hand, are more complicated if the original poster placed the ad and the tradesperson merely responded—that’s true.
Tolentino schrieb:
I believe a quote through Myhammer is a pretty strong indication that the work is being done commercially. Classified ads, when the original poster has placed them and the tradesperson just responds, are more difficult to assess, that’s true. It could certainly be a tradesperson, but I don’t know what was agreed afterward regarding the execution. The original poster has not commented on the point that Traumfaenger already mentioned in post #2. I just wanted to say with my post that work carried out "as a favor between friends," but which is not actually a favor, can have negative consequences for both the contractor and the client if the matter ends up in court.
G
GeradeSchräg3 Sep 2021 09:43Tolentino schrieb:
I'll also bring up the electrician responsible for installation in the new construction. If they violated the cable installation guidelines during routing and the violation wasn't visible during inspection, they might still be held accountable. Please note this is just a layperson’s opinion!
I believe that a quote from Myhammer is a pretty clear indication that the work was carried out commercially.
Classified ads are trickier if the original poster placed the ad and the tradesperson only responded, that’s true. I see the issue with routing directions (installation zones) similarly. However, it’s a complex topic. It depends on what is specified in the electrician’s contract. If it states installation according to VDE or DIN 18015 standards, you can rely on that—assuming the cables are indeed installed incorrectly. If it only says “work carried out according to recognized rules of technology” or similar wording, it becomes difficult, because neither DIN nor VDE standards are mandatory by law. They are guidelines, not legal requirements—unfortunately.
Otherwise, I would say, tough luck. After all, you approved that point.
A drilled-through cable is frustrating, but not a disaster.
Bardamu schrieb:
Before drilling holes in the wall where cables are suspected, you could use a stud finder to be sure. It costs 20 euros.However, if 17cm (7 inches) of polystyrene insulation has been added to the exterior wall, the device becomes little more than a rough guess.Similar topics