ᐅ New Semi-Detached House – Is Investing an Extra $10,000 Worthwhile for a Smart Home?
Created on: 17 Jan 2021 17:11
G
Giggz123
Hello everyone,
we are currently planning the construction of our half of a semi-detached house. Initially, I was considering a KNX solution for home automation, but the reality as homebuilders is catching up with us, and the budget is getting tighter. Due to the plot, we are tied to a construction company that handles all trades (including electrical) with their own staff. The contract is expected to be signed soon.
The construction company seems to have limited expertise regarding smart home systems, so I’m now considering how to best proceed.
At the moment, the plan is for conventional electrical work (about 8,000 EUR), plus additional services for almost 4,000 EUR net to install a LAN connection in every room and reach a total of 100 power outlets and 20 lighting points (there may still be some missing).
We still have about 10,000 EUR left, so the entire (smart) electrical installation can cost around 22,000 EUR. We have also planned 13 roller shutters / blinds, which — for now — will have conventional electrical control.
Requirements - Must Have:
Nice to Have:
Options:
1. Conventional wiring plus standalone radio solutions (this is what we currently have in the rental apartment: Somfy roller shutters, HUE lights, etc.), integrated into a common visualization platform (such as ioBroker and others)
2. Proprietary system, currently the favorite is probably Free@Home with central actuators, allowing a possible later switch to KNX if needed. Alternatively, Homematic Wired might be an option.
3a. KNX with the must-haves and preparation (cabling) for nice-to-haves / as much as possible
3b. KNX with must-haves, nice-to-haves via radio solutions / gateways, integrated into a common visualization (ioBroker and others)
I’ve read a lot about this but somehow keep going in circles...
Do you have any advice on how to best approach this now? Should I create a room schedule and request various offers for options 2 and 3? Should I look for a qualified system integrator / smart home expert who can offer both options 2 and 3? Or is this basically unrealistic with the given budget, and I should focus on option 1?
Although construction doesn’t start until summer, if I want to try to contract the electrical trade elsewhere, I only have about 4 weeks left.
I am not completely ruling out KNX and could also imagine doing some work myself. Has anyone used a solution where they hired a planner, had the control cabinet assembled and shipped, then had the construction company’s electrician install all the wiring, and finally configured everything themselves?
Many thanks in advance!
we are currently planning the construction of our half of a semi-detached house. Initially, I was considering a KNX solution for home automation, but the reality as homebuilders is catching up with us, and the budget is getting tighter. Due to the plot, we are tied to a construction company that handles all trades (including electrical) with their own staff. The contract is expected to be signed soon.
The construction company seems to have limited expertise regarding smart home systems, so I’m now considering how to best proceed.
At the moment, the plan is for conventional electrical work (about 8,000 EUR), plus additional services for almost 4,000 EUR net to install a LAN connection in every room and reach a total of 100 power outlets and 20 lighting points (there may still be some missing).
We still have about 10,000 EUR left, so the entire (smart) electrical installation can cost around 22,000 EUR. We have also planned 13 roller shutters / blinds, which — for now — will have conventional electrical control.
Requirements - Must Have:
- Lighting:
- Central control of lights (preferably all, if necessary by floor, room, or selected areas); partial dimming
- Shading:
- Central control of roller shutters / blinds with automated shading
- Power:
- Make approximately 10+ power outlets switchable
Nice to Have:
- Avoid residual current devices (RCDs) if justifiable via smart home (I do not intend to actively control heating)
- Connection to controlled residential ventilation system
- Integration of voice control
- Window contacts
- Visualization
- Presence detectors
- Sonos integration
- Intercom system integration (Doorbird, Busch Jäger Welcome)
- Alarm system functionality (via presence detectors / sensors, possibly also a proprietary system, e.g. Busch Secure@Home)
Options:
1. Conventional wiring plus standalone radio solutions (this is what we currently have in the rental apartment: Somfy roller shutters, HUE lights, etc.), integrated into a common visualization platform (such as ioBroker and others)
2. Proprietary system, currently the favorite is probably Free@Home with central actuators, allowing a possible later switch to KNX if needed. Alternatively, Homematic Wired might be an option.
3a. KNX with the must-haves and preparation (cabling) for nice-to-haves / as much as possible
3b. KNX with must-haves, nice-to-haves via radio solutions / gateways, integrated into a common visualization (ioBroker and others)
I’ve read a lot about this but somehow keep going in circles...
Do you have any advice on how to best approach this now? Should I create a room schedule and request various offers for options 2 and 3? Should I look for a qualified system integrator / smart home expert who can offer both options 2 and 3? Or is this basically unrealistic with the given budget, and I should focus on option 1?
Although construction doesn’t start until summer, if I want to try to contract the electrical trade elsewhere, I only have about 4 weeks left.
I am not completely ruling out KNX and could also imagine doing some work myself. Has anyone used a solution where they hired a planner, had the control cabinet assembled and shipped, then had the construction company’s electrician install all the wiring, and finally configured everything themselves?
Many thanks in advance!
Giggz123 schrieb:
We have about 10,000 euros left, so the entire (smart) electrical system can cost around 22,000 euros. We have planned 13 roller shutters / venetian blinds, which—for now—will have conventional wiring. You have an extra 10K to automate a house? That’s a good start. I wouldn’t really call it smart yet. The term has become so overused that it can mean just about anything.
But with 10K extra, quite a lot is possible, even if it doesn’t seem that way at first glance.
Giggz123 schrieb:
The construction company seems to have only limited expertise regarding smart homes, so I’m considering how to approach this best. That’s the usual story. They only do the standard stuff and don’t know much beyond that. Or at best, they install a few pseudo-smart devices on the client’s request. As long as you can “talk to the house” and have an app with colorful icons on your phone.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Regarding putting KNX on hold / only doing basic preparation, but then having conventional wiring—that would mean significantly higher costs later, right? I’ve read that it’s not really sensible. No, you can forget about conventional wiring right away. You have 10K extra—not just extra, but that you can use meaningfully and not waste. So completely ditch conventional wiring and invest your 10K where you won’t be able to make changes later. That means bus cabling wherever possible and a structured star wiring of the load circuits. Also plan the roller shutters accordingly. The budget should be enough. That way you have a basic framework/skeleton of wiring to build on later. Better to save a little on LAN and invest that in wiring, because later it’s hard to impossible to get bus or even 230V, for example, to the living room ceiling.
Giggz123 schrieb:
For me, option 1 at the start would be preferable so I can at least have some central control in the house. That would be the worst choice you could make.
I only see 3a as the sensible solution. 3b will come automatically over time. Options 1 and 2 are old hat.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Requirements - Must Have:
- Lighting:
- Central control of lights (ideally all, if necessary by floor, room, or selected areas); partial dimming
- Shading:
- Central control of roller shutters / venetian blinds, automated shading
- Power:
- Approx. 10+ switchable outlets
All that should be easily achievable within the 10K budget.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Nice to Have:
- Omission of the residual current device (RCD) if justifiable through smart home functions; I do not intend to actively control the heating.
Cost: exactly zero euros, or you might even get some money credited by the general contractor for it. Maybe around 100 euros or so.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Integration of controlled mechanical ventilation system Not absolutely necessary right away. Depending on the ventilation system, it might be manageable with its own controls without KNX.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Integration of voice control Highly overrated and more or less unnecessary in a well-planned house unless you really need it. But well, a smart speaker doesn’t cost much anyway.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Window contacts This can be a cost driver. However, it might be possible to do it yourself or start with a minimal installation and preparation only.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Visualization You can do all that yourself. It’s rarely needed at the beginning since you have other priorities.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Presence detectors Also a cost driver but can be added gradually later on.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Sonos integration Possible through many paths and can also be done later.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Door communication system integration (Doorbird, Busch-Jaeger Welcome) For the start, this can also be run as a standalone system.
Giggz123 schrieb:
Alarm system function (via presence detectors / sensors, possibly something proprietary like Busch Secure@Home) That only works when everything is fully installed because if you’re missing window contacts or other sensors, what’s the point?
Giggz123 schrieb:
Berlin Oh, another one from the area. Which district?
Shelly devices are not an option. They’re toys and noise pollution.
S
Stefan89018 Jan 2021 10:05With a lot of personal effort, KNX could be achieved within the planned budget. However, the electrical contractor must also cooperate. Additionally, you need to invest time and possibly acquire quite a bit of knowledge.
At first, I found the costs for proper electrical work very high and almost decided to forgo it. In the end, it was implemented at almost acceptable costs through personal effort. But now, when I see the amounts charged by specialists for painting or paving the driveway, the investment in future-proof electrical installation no longer seems that high to me.
At first, I found the costs for proper electrical work very high and almost decided to forgo it. In the end, it was implemented at almost acceptable costs through personal effort. But now, when I see the amounts charged by specialists for painting or paving the driveway, the investment in future-proof electrical installation no longer seems that high to me.
From my perspective, the real issue is less about the absolute costs and more about the often very poor quality of the work provided. This directly stems from what @Mycraft wrote:
Mycraft schrieb:It is probably also because, due to the small volume of work, there is a lack of routine, which is then compensated by a significant “safety margin” in pricing. We are currently in the middle of the (price) discussion with a so-called automation specialist company...
Yes, the usual. They only do the standard and don’t know anything beyond that.
First of all, thank you for the many contributions; they definitely encourage me not to give up here right away and to see the conventional approach as fixed 🙂
I have, that would be a (cost-effective) solution for my option 1. Currently, I am working with Zigbee, which at least works relatively well and stable within one floor (apartment). With 10,000 EUR one can certainly get pretty far here and probably realize all the points I mentioned – but only as isolated solutions. The whole narrative of “hardwired, manufacturer independence and thus future-proof security” really appeals to me in my own house, which is why I am trying to still make that work.
Mycraft, thank you very much for your long, detailed post (and your tireless effort to always provide thorough comments in almost every KNX thread 🙂 ). I’m glad to read that with 10,000 EUR I can already achieve something and, from your perspective, get the basic setup done with enough cables for the additional things.
Regarding the controlled residential ventilation system, the background here is actually the BAFA funding for energy-efficient heating, which currently would not apply to my preferred controlled ventilation system because the heat pump and the controlled ventilation must be “operated together from a control systems perspective”.
Pankow, we are building in Karow. Do you have a recommendation for a good contact in Berlin where I can explain my concerns to get support? From my research, I have already read your tip about Elektro Paech (here or in another forum). They seem to be only about 100 meters from our building site in Karow and are on my list.
I would be curious to know the share of new-build projects in the private sector that ultimately integrate a smart home solution (and whether the demand is really so low that industry doesn’t feel any pressure to act)...
What I am still uncertain about, if I had to choose between:
1. Removing the electrical trade from the main construction contract and finding a skilled electrician who installs “as much KNX as possible” for 22,000 EUR (then I would configure it myself),
2. Planning with experts, having a switch cabinet built accordingly, and then letting the builder’s electrician pull all the cables and do the wiring (afterwards configuring myself).
What would you choose? The more I think about it while typing, the more the first option makes sense, and the second as a backup in case the builder’s company refuses... 🙂
allstar83 schrieb:
Have you already looked at the Shellys? That might be sufficient if everything else remains conventional.
I have, that would be a (cost-effective) solution for my option 1. Currently, I am working with Zigbee, which at least works relatively well and stable within one floor (apartment). With 10,000 EUR one can certainly get pretty far here and probably realize all the points I mentioned – but only as isolated solutions. The whole narrative of “hardwired, manufacturer independence and thus future-proof security” really appeals to me in my own house, which is why I am trying to still make that work.
Mycraft schrieb:
I only see 3a as the only sensible solution.
Mycraft, thank you very much for your long, detailed post (and your tireless effort to always provide thorough comments in almost every KNX thread 🙂 ). I’m glad to read that with 10,000 EUR I can already achieve something and, from your perspective, get the basic setup done with enough cables for the additional things.
Regarding the controlled residential ventilation system, the background here is actually the BAFA funding for energy-efficient heating, which currently would not apply to my preferred controlled ventilation system because the heat pump and the controlled ventilation must be “operated together from a control systems perspective”.
Mycraft schrieb:
Oh, another one from the area. Which district?
Pankow, we are building in Karow. Do you have a recommendation for a good contact in Berlin where I can explain my concerns to get support? From my research, I have already read your tip about Elektro Paech (here or in another forum). They seem to be only about 100 meters from our building site in Karow and are on my list.
K1300S schrieb:
From my point of view, the worst thing is less the absolute costs but rather the often very poor performance for that money. This results directly from what @Mycraft wrote:
It is probably also due to the lack of volume leading to little routine, which is then compensated by a hefty ‘safety surcharge’. We are also currently deep in the (price) discussion with a supposed home automation specialist company...
I would be curious to know the share of new-build projects in the private sector that ultimately integrate a smart home solution (and whether the demand is really so low that industry doesn’t feel any pressure to act)...
What I am still uncertain about, if I had to choose between:
1. Removing the electrical trade from the main construction contract and finding a skilled electrician who installs “as much KNX as possible” for 22,000 EUR (then I would configure it myself),
2. Planning with experts, having a switch cabinet built accordingly, and then letting the builder’s electrician pull all the cables and do the wiring (afterwards configuring myself).
What would you choose? The more I think about it while typing, the more the first option makes sense, and the second as a backup in case the builder’s company refuses... 🙂