ᐅ New semi-detached house construction – which systems to install?
Created on: 12 Apr 2020 22:50
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C.beckmann1986
Hello everyone,
we are finally building a house. Currently, we live in a rental apartment and I have the following components:
- Alexa Echo Plus in the living room
- Alexa Echo Dot in the bathroom
- Alexa Echo Dot in the children’s room (to be installed)
- Various Hue lamps, some with motion sensors
For our new house, of course, I want the latest technology. What am I looking for?
- Central control of roller shutters (possibly linked to daylight and summer temperature)
- Several controllable lights in the living areas
- Access to possible cameras / lights via smartphone
- Motion sensor lighting, for example in the basement hallway
- Remote control of heating for vacations etc. (air source heat pump)
- Possibly centrally controlled smoke detectors with notifications to the smartphone
Nothing else comes to mind at the moment...
In addition, I plan to install CAT 7 LAN cables in every room.
I keep reading that everything wired should be done with KNX. However, based on my requirements, I wonder if that might be a bit over the top.
I like voice control with Alexa / Siri and a nice touchpad for visualization very much. But does it still make sense to implement a full bus system with KNX?
I would be very grateful for a few tips.
Best regards
Christian
we are finally building a house. Currently, we live in a rental apartment and I have the following components:
- Alexa Echo Plus in the living room
- Alexa Echo Dot in the bathroom
- Alexa Echo Dot in the children’s room (to be installed)
- Various Hue lamps, some with motion sensors
For our new house, of course, I want the latest technology. What am I looking for?
- Central control of roller shutters (possibly linked to daylight and summer temperature)
- Several controllable lights in the living areas
- Access to possible cameras / lights via smartphone
- Motion sensor lighting, for example in the basement hallway
- Remote control of heating for vacations etc. (air source heat pump)
- Possibly centrally controlled smoke detectors with notifications to the smartphone
Nothing else comes to mind at the moment...
In addition, I plan to install CAT 7 LAN cables in every room.
I keep reading that everything wired should be done with KNX. However, based on my requirements, I wonder if that might be a bit over the top.
I like voice control with Alexa / Siri and a nice touchpad for visualization very much. But does it still make sense to implement a full bus system with KNX?
I would be very grateful for a few tips.
Best regards
Christian
D
Denk_Mal1922 Apr 2020 13:34You are right, the air-to-water heat pump operates well on its own and automatically when it is properly configured. However, you should not skip individual room controls or sensors. This can be easily managed using bus systems.
WHY?
If you ventilate, heat, or cool each room according to its specific needs, the overall system works much more efficiently. Without sensors, energy is supplied that is neither requested nor needed—for example, heating the master bedroom or ventilating the child’s room unnecessarily. This means the provided energy is wasted, which worsens the overall energy balance of the building services.
As a result, this leads to a higher energy demand for the heat pump. This is often the case in many projects where savings were made in this, and thus the wrong, area.
It has been proven that the calculated and forecasted annual performance factor (seasonal coefficient of performance) is more reliably reached or even exceeded when the aspect mentioned above is taken into account.
WHY?
If you ventilate, heat, or cool each room according to its specific needs, the overall system works much more efficiently. Without sensors, energy is supplied that is neither requested nor needed—for example, heating the master bedroom or ventilating the child’s room unnecessarily. This means the provided energy is wasted, which worsens the overall energy balance of the building services.
As a result, this leads to a higher energy demand for the heat pump. This is often the case in many projects where savings were made in this, and thus the wrong, area.
It has been proven that the calculated and forecasted annual performance factor (seasonal coefficient of performance) is more reliably reached or even exceeded when the aspect mentioned above is taken into account.
C
C.beckmann198622 Apr 2020 14:01Ok, so how can I implement this? Every room has a thermostat where I can control the temperature. And since the underfloor heating is quite slow to respond, it doesn’t make sense to turn the dial down when airing the room, right?
I’m afraid I don’t fully understand that.
I’m afraid I don’t fully understand that.
You are absolutely right: a room temperature controller (RTC) combined with a heat pump and underfloor heating makes no sense. No matter how you adjust it, especially when cooling in the morning, you will have a cold room in the evening, but not so much at midday. In other words, when you come home from work and want the rooms to be warm, they will still be cold.
However, the statement from Denk_Mal19 applies very well to existing buildings with radiators or air heating systems, or even dry-installed underfloor heating. These systems respond quickly, allowing heat to be distributed according to demand. This way, heating or cooling is not done "unnecessarily."
In a modern low-energy building (according to the Energy Saving Ordinance or better), equipped with that type of heat pump (or gas), with a heating demand in the single-digit kilowatt range, and possibly with a controlled ventilation system, it is simply not possible to achieve larger temperature differences and response times of less than 2–3 hours (if it is to run efficiently). Night setbacks are also counterproductive.
A perfectly thermally balanced system, therefore, does not need an RTC and can still provide an air temperature spread of just a few degrees within the rooms. The desired temperatures are simply set by adjusting the flow, and the valves remain open at this setting permanently.
However, the statement from Denk_Mal19 applies very well to existing buildings with radiators or air heating systems, or even dry-installed underfloor heating. These systems respond quickly, allowing heat to be distributed according to demand. This way, heating or cooling is not done "unnecessarily."
In a modern low-energy building (according to the Energy Saving Ordinance or better), equipped with that type of heat pump (or gas), with a heating demand in the single-digit kilowatt range, and possibly with a controlled ventilation system, it is simply not possible to achieve larger temperature differences and response times of less than 2–3 hours (if it is to run efficiently). Night setbacks are also counterproductive.
A perfectly thermally balanced system, therefore, does not need an RTC and can still provide an air temperature spread of just a few degrees within the rooms. The desired temperatures are simply set by adjusting the flow, and the valves remain open at this setting permanently.
bauenmk202022 Apr 2020 15:30Conduits and deep flush-mounted boxes (at least for the light switches).
The question is also how much time the electrician can dedicate to your property. In our case, I was a bit shocked because there was about a one-week gap between the on-site meeting to discuss the work and the actual start of the electrical work.
I also spent quite some time considering this and concluded that a KNX installation handled by the general contractor’s electrician will not be implemented optimally. The general contractor tends to push the electrician from site to site, leaving very little time. Although we settled the invoice directly with the electrician, he was still more obligated to the general contractor than to us, the homeowners.
The question is also how much time the electrician can dedicate to your property. In our case, I was a bit shocked because there was about a one-week gap between the on-site meeting to discuss the work and the actual start of the electrical work.
I also spent quite some time considering this and concluded that a KNX installation handled by the general contractor’s electrician will not be implemented optimally. The general contractor tends to push the electrician from site to site, leaving very little time. Although we settled the invoice directly with the electrician, he was still more obligated to the general contractor than to us, the homeowners.
D
Denk_Mal1922 Apr 2020 15:55I always assume that in modern and newly built houses, the heat pump is combined with a ventilation system. It makes sense here, for example, to combine temperature and CO2 sensors in the bedroom or children’s room. For this, only one Cat5/Cat7 cable needs to be installed throughout the house.
Rooms that are only heated when needed (such as guest rooms, offices, hobby rooms, etc.) can then be activated by a temperature sensor when required. These rooms are ventilated during this time according to the minimum airflow rate specified in DIN 1946-6:2019-12. Otherwise, they can be heated to a lower temperature.
This is best controlled via a home control system or touch display, rather than manually adjusting each room. This system also makes room data quickly and easily visible, so issues like valve sticking become noticeable sooner.
Rooms that are only heated when needed (such as guest rooms, offices, hobby rooms, etc.) can then be activated by a temperature sensor when required. These rooms are ventilated during this time according to the minimum airflow rate specified in DIN 1946-6:2019-12. Otherwise, they can be heated to a lower temperature.
This is best controlled via a home control system or touch display, rather than manually adjusting each room. This system also makes room data quickly and easily visible, so issues like valve sticking become noticeable sooner.
Denk_Mal19 schrieb:
that in modern and newly built houses the heat pump is combined with a ventilation system. Unfortunately, this is still not the case.
Denk_Mal19 schrieb:
Rooms that are only heated when needed (guest rooms, home offices, hobby rooms, etc.) are then controlled via temperature sensors and activated accordingly when required. This reflects a fundamental misunderstanding of thermodynamics. All rooms within the same thermal envelope aim to reach a state of equilibrium. As a result, rooms that are turned off are heated indirectly by the surrounding rooms. This causes the heat demand of the adjacent rooms to increase, meaning energy is still consumed even if room X appears to be disconnected from the heating system.
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