ᐅ Is it possible for one house to supply two additional houses?
Created on: 27 May 2019 14:39
P
Pianist
Good day to everyone reading!
The trend in Europe is clearly moving towards climate protection and reducing CO2 emissions. Currently, my house and my parents’ house are still heated with oil. I moved into my house in 2000, and my parents’ house is almost 100 years old; its heating system was replaced ten years ago. My house is quite well insulated, and I use about nine liters per square meter per year for heating and hot water. My parents’ consumption is only slightly higher because the house was built with a double-layer wall nearly 100 years ago. Further insulation improvements are hardly feasible since that would likely require renewing the roof structure.
There is a theoretical possibility to build a third house on the property in the coming years. Ideally, I would like to find a solution that completely eliminates burning oil or gas, for example by operating a ground-source heat pump powered by photovoltaic panels. Since the roof design of the two existing houses is not suitable for photovoltaic or solar thermal systems, I am currently wondering if it would be possible to plan and build the third house in a way that it could also supply the two older houses.
Ultimately, I would like a future-proof solution because I aim to live in the third house at some point and support myself with the rental income from the two front houses. In ten years, it will hardly be acceptable to have an oil delivery truck come once a year…
Is this realistic, or completely hopeless?
Matthias
The trend in Europe is clearly moving towards climate protection and reducing CO2 emissions. Currently, my house and my parents’ house are still heated with oil. I moved into my house in 2000, and my parents’ house is almost 100 years old; its heating system was replaced ten years ago. My house is quite well insulated, and I use about nine liters per square meter per year for heating and hot water. My parents’ consumption is only slightly higher because the house was built with a double-layer wall nearly 100 years ago. Further insulation improvements are hardly feasible since that would likely require renewing the roof structure.
There is a theoretical possibility to build a third house on the property in the coming years. Ideally, I would like to find a solution that completely eliminates burning oil or gas, for example by operating a ground-source heat pump powered by photovoltaic panels. Since the roof design of the two existing houses is not suitable for photovoltaic or solar thermal systems, I am currently wondering if it would be possible to plan and build the third house in a way that it could also supply the two older houses.
Ultimately, I would like a future-proof solution because I aim to live in the third house at some point and support myself with the rental income from the two front houses. In ten years, it will hardly be acceptable to have an oil delivery truck come once a year…
Is this realistic, or completely hopeless?
Matthias
H
hampshire27 May 2019 17:09Pianist schrieb:
What alternatives are there if you want to improve existing houses? The roof surfaces are quite irregular due to dormers, so there is hardly any space for photovoltaic panels or solar thermal systems. With a new house, that wouldn’t be a problem of course.Solar roof tiles are suitable for complex roof shapes. The investment makes sense during the next roof renovation; I wouldn’t recommend tearing down a relatively new roof for that.Pianist schrieb:
I’m also not entirely sure if the principle of “producing electricity in summer and buying it in winter” works, because if everyone does that, we’ll have a surplus in summer and shortages in winter.Exactly right: in the long run, that doesn’t work. That’s why feed-in tariffs decrease as more photovoltaic systems are installed. The next step is to store the excess energy for winter, for example as hydrogen, which is generated from air using electrical energy and stored. Then, a small engine burns the hydrogen in winter, producing about two-thirds heat energy and one-third electricity.
Hello
One possibility for the heat generator could be a pellet boiler, district heating pipes to each house, with a transfer station that also handles domestic hot water preparation.
Each housing unit can be easily billed, heating can be adjusted according to the building and user behavior, and issues with drinking water hygiene are also unlikely.
Olli
One possibility for the heat generator could be a pellet boiler, district heating pipes to each house, with a transfer station that also handles domestic hot water preparation.
Each housing unit can be easily billed, heating can be adjusted according to the building and user behavior, and issues with drinking water hygiene are also unlikely.
Olli
wrobel schrieb:
A possible option for heat generation could be a pellet boiler, district heating pipes to each house, and a transfer station on-site that also handles domestic hot water production.
Each residential unit can be billed easily, heating can be adjusted based on the building and user behavior, and there are no expected issues with drinking water hygiene. However, pellet heating systems have the fundamental problem of fine dust emissions, and regulations will likely become stricter in the coming years. Also, it takes quite a long time for the burned wood to regrow.
hampshire schrieb:
The next step would be to store excess energy for winter use, for example as hydrogen produced from air using electrical energy and stored. A small engine then burns the hydrogen in winter, generating about two-thirds heat energy and one-third electricity. Is this technology already suitable for single-family homes, or is it still futuristic? I have seen larger industrial plants, but when will this be available and affordable for private households? Could a breakthrough be expected within the next five years? I can certainly imagine the concept of producing hydrogen with solar power over the summer and then using it for heating in winter. Would it be possible to accumulate enough hydrogen over several months, and would that be sufficient for the whole winter?
So far, battery storage (for example, using retired electric vehicle batteries) can only be considered short-term storage, perhaps for a few days. But with hydrogen electrolysis, it should certainly be possible to store energy over a longer period.
Then, such a system might even supply energy to three houses. However, I would prefer to have such equipment located outside the residential buildings...
Matthias
H
hampshire27 May 2019 20:08Pianist schrieb:
However, pellet heating systems naturally have the fundamental issue of fine dust emissions, and regulations will likely become stricter in the coming years. Also, it takes quite a long time for the burned wood to regrow. Fine dust emissions with pellet heating depend largely on combustion control. This is not a major problem. Of course, the pellets need to be sustainably sourced. We will be heating with wood from our own forest (masonry stove). The forest regrows significantly more each year than we consume, even though we only have a little more than one hectare of mixed deciduous forest in our “garden.”
Pianist schrieb:
Is this already suitable for single-family homes or still a thing of the future? I have seen larger industrial-scale systems, but when will this be available and affordable for private households? Is a breakthrough expected within the next five years? I could definitely imagine it being interesting to produce hydrogen with solar power during summer and then burn it in winter. Could such storage be accumulated over months, and would it be sufficient for the winter? That is still a thing of the future. I expect the first purchasable systems for private households in about five years, but not a breakthrough yet. Enough hydrogen can be stored for the winter months. Suitable tanks are already available; now they just need to become more affordable.
Pianist schrieb:
So far, battery storage (for example using former electric car batteries) can only be seen as short-term storage, maybe for a few days. But with hydrogen electrolysis, longer-term storage could surely work. We use batteries to cover overnight consumption during the producing months without much thought and, thanks to hybrid inverter technology, to operate large consumers (sauna, ceramic kiln, instant water heater) with minimal electricity purchased from the grid. The hydrogen addition will come as soon as the technology is mature and reasonably affordable. We are not “first movers” but “early followers.”
For several houses, an ice storage heating system is also very interesting.
hampshire schrieb:
Still a matter for the future.In my opinion, it’s more of a utopia at this point. I don’t see decentralized hydrogen production and storage becoming market-ready for private households within the next 5 years. Pure hydrogen as a gaseous energy carrier is unfortunately not straightforward and even more challenging than LPG (liquefied petroleum gas) and CNG/natural gas (keyword Rettenbach).The local heating solution mentioned earlier would certainly be worth considering. Heat demand and operational management would need to be examined in detail, but a combined heat and power (CHP) unit could quite well be a viable solution.
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