Hi,
a quick question for the experts: we might want to rent out our hobby room later as a self-contained apartment.
The room is in the exposed basement level, with floor-to-ceiling windows. We are planning all the necessary connections for electricity, bathroom, etc. What concerns me now are two things: the apartment itself and the wall thickness. The exterior wall is 24cm (9.5 inches) concrete plus 12cm (5 inches) of perimeter insulation. The interior walls, which separate the apartment from our main entrance and the utility room, are currently planned as 24cm (9.5 inches) brick. That seems a bit thick to me. We would lose several square meters of living space because of that. How thick do these walls really need to be? Would 17.5cm (7 inches), for example, be sufficient?
We don’t even know if we will ever rent out the apartment. Given its size (about 30m² (320 square feet)), it would only be suitable for students anyway. We just want to be prepared, either for our own children or to rent to family members or students. We might also spend a few years abroad and thought it would be beneficial to have rental income during that time.
I’m wondering whether the effort is even worth it considering the room size. The room will be very bright, but just the separate entrance door with certain security features has already cost us €2500. The connections will cost another €5500, including the construction of the bathroom, etc. We are easily looking at €10,000 in total.
Only if we don’t do it, we might regret it later. We definitely don’t want to rent to strangers while living in the house. At most, as mentioned, to students or family members, or when we are abroad for a few years. In old age, it could supplement the pension if needed. But currently, renting to strangers while living here is not an option—only family.
The connections are currently being installed anyway, so that’s fine. Even for the hobby room, having a small kitchen corner and a toilet will be very useful.
Still, I’m interested in your opinion. And how thick do the interior walls really need to be for renting out? 24cm (9.5 inches) or would 17.5cm (7 inches) be enough? Or even less?
a quick question for the experts: we might want to rent out our hobby room later as a self-contained apartment.
The room is in the exposed basement level, with floor-to-ceiling windows. We are planning all the necessary connections for electricity, bathroom, etc. What concerns me now are two things: the apartment itself and the wall thickness. The exterior wall is 24cm (9.5 inches) concrete plus 12cm (5 inches) of perimeter insulation. The interior walls, which separate the apartment from our main entrance and the utility room, are currently planned as 24cm (9.5 inches) brick. That seems a bit thick to me. We would lose several square meters of living space because of that. How thick do these walls really need to be? Would 17.5cm (7 inches), for example, be sufficient?
We don’t even know if we will ever rent out the apartment. Given its size (about 30m² (320 square feet)), it would only be suitable for students anyway. We just want to be prepared, either for our own children or to rent to family members or students. We might also spend a few years abroad and thought it would be beneficial to have rental income during that time.
I’m wondering whether the effort is even worth it considering the room size. The room will be very bright, but just the separate entrance door with certain security features has already cost us €2500. The connections will cost another €5500, including the construction of the bathroom, etc. We are easily looking at €10,000 in total.
Only if we don’t do it, we might regret it later. We definitely don’t want to rent to strangers while living in the house. At most, as mentioned, to students or family members, or when we are abroad for a few years. In old age, it could supplement the pension if needed. But currently, renting to strangers while living here is not an option—only family.
The connections are currently being installed anyway, so that’s fine. Even for the hobby room, having a small kitchen corner and a toilet will be very useful.
Still, I’m interested in your opinion. And how thick do the interior walls really need to be for renting out? 24cm (9.5 inches) or would 17.5cm (7 inches) be enough? Or even less?
Hello Stefan,
If I were you, I would be less interested in the opinion of forum users and more in that of your structural engineer. Walls that are 24 cm (9.5 inches) thick are usually load-bearing walls.
As far as I know, there is no clear regulation on this. However, I would stick to the 24 cm (9.5 inches) walls.
tabtab schrieb:
Still, I’m interested in your opinion. And how thick do interior walls really need to be (for rental properties)? 24 cm (9.5 inches), or is 17.5 cm (7 inches) enough? Or even less?
If I were you, I would be less interested in the opinion of forum users and more in that of your structural engineer. Walls that are 24 cm (9.5 inches) thick are usually load-bearing walls.
As far as I know, there is no clear regulation on this. However, I would stick to the 24 cm (9.5 inches) walls.
S
Sebastian7922 Jun 2016 11:26If the connections are installed straight, how can the wall thickness still be an issue? Or in the floor slab?
As Joche said, a structural engineer has to assess that – they set the requirements. We always use 17.5cm (7 inches) load-bearing blocks – but lime sandstone, so that works then 😉.
As Joche said, a structural engineer has to assess that – they set the requirements. We always use 17.5cm (7 inches) load-bearing blocks – but lime sandstone, so that works then 😉.
Hello!
I don’t believe you will ever be able to recover the costs with this setup. When planning to live abroad, people usually sell or rent out the entire property to have only one point of contact and a single billing process. Renting within the family raises the question whether anyone actually studies in S or the surrounding area, and if so, whether they would pay a market-based rent. Probably not. However, a room rented within the family does not need to meet the standards of an official separate apartment (certificate of separation/planning permission for a second entrance, etc.).
If you actually need extra income in old age, would you want to rent out a 30-year-old bathroom? Probably not, or only at poor conditions, which is generally uneconomical. Keep this in mind and install the connections and build the standard low enough to meet your own needs and family use. If renting does become relevant later, you will have to renovate anyway, redo the bathroom, etc., which could also be achieved with an additional small independent unit.
Your architect should also clarify the requirements for a certificate of separation (Abgeschlossenheitsbescheinigung). If this certificate requires a certain wall thickness, you will need to consider whether it is worth it. If this is required for structural reasons, the discussion is settled.
In general, renting out individual units or granny flats involves high risk because all losses affect that single unit. I originally considered this as well, but completely abandoned the idea. From an economic perspective, you need to rent it out permanently; otherwise, it’s just a nice-to-have investment that very likely won’t pay off. In that case, the 10,000 € for preparing it must be of no concern, or you need to be aware that it will wear out and have to be adapted to the situation again after 25–30 years.
Best regards
Dirk Grafe
I don’t believe you will ever be able to recover the costs with this setup. When planning to live abroad, people usually sell or rent out the entire property to have only one point of contact and a single billing process. Renting within the family raises the question whether anyone actually studies in S or the surrounding area, and if so, whether they would pay a market-based rent. Probably not. However, a room rented within the family does not need to meet the standards of an official separate apartment (certificate of separation/planning permission for a second entrance, etc.).
If you actually need extra income in old age, would you want to rent out a 30-year-old bathroom? Probably not, or only at poor conditions, which is generally uneconomical. Keep this in mind and install the connections and build the standard low enough to meet your own needs and family use. If renting does become relevant later, you will have to renovate anyway, redo the bathroom, etc., which could also be achieved with an additional small independent unit.
Your architect should also clarify the requirements for a certificate of separation (Abgeschlossenheitsbescheinigung). If this certificate requires a certain wall thickness, you will need to consider whether it is worth it. If this is required for structural reasons, the discussion is settled.
In general, renting out individual units or granny flats involves high risk because all losses affect that single unit. I originally considered this as well, but completely abandoned the idea. From an economic perspective, you need to rent it out permanently; otherwise, it’s just a nice-to-have investment that very likely won’t pay off. In that case, the 10,000 € for preparing it must be of no concern, or you need to be aware that it will wear out and have to be adapted to the situation again after 25–30 years.
Best regards
Dirk Grafe
Interesting perspective, Dirk. I haven’t looked at it that way before.
So, the 24 cm (9.5 inch) wall is probably structurally necessary. There’s no way around it.
The connections are floor penetrations. We’re not doing the bathroom right now. We will first just build the walls and connections; tiling and sanitary fixtures will come later when needed.
Well, now it’s too late to do without the separate entrance door. The basement is currently being poured, and I assume we can’t change that anymore. So, we’ll have to live with it. You never know what the future holds. Maybe one day we’ll need to accommodate a family member. I don’t hope for that, but at least now we’d have the option.
So, the 24 cm (9.5 inch) wall is probably structurally necessary. There’s no way around it.
The connections are floor penetrations. We’re not doing the bathroom right now. We will first just build the walls and connections; tiling and sanitary fixtures will come later when needed.
Well, now it’s too late to do without the separate entrance door. The basement is currently being poured, and I assume we can’t change that anymore. So, we’ll have to live with it. You never know what the future holds. Maybe one day we’ll need to accommodate a family member. I don’t hope for that, but at least now we’d have the option.
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