ᐅ Underfloor heating on the ground floor and upper floor, radiators in the basement?
Created on: 19 Oct 2015 22:26
A
andimann
Hi everyone,
We are planning to build a single-family house next year with about 170 sqm (1,830 sq ft) and a full basement. The basement will be constructed as a waterproof concrete structure (“WU slab”) with 100 mm (4 inches) perimeter insulation. Heating will be provided by a gas boiler (Vaillant Vitodens 300-W). Underfloor heating will be installed on the ground floor and upper floor, but the question is about the basement.
In the basement there will be an office (just for normal private use and occasionally working from home, so not permanent use), a workshop room, and a large room (40 sqm (430 sq ft)) used for general storage. This might eventually be divided to create a multipurpose room for the kids. So, a pretty normal basement.
I think equipping the basement fully with underfloor heating is excessive given the additional costs charged by several general contractors, with the highest quote being more than 50 euros per sqm (about $50 per sq ft) extra!
My plan is to install regular radiators on the walls in the basement, just one or two sizes larger than normal, and run them at a flow temperature of 35°C (95°F). That’s it. Is there any reason not to do this? It doesn’t need to be exceptionally warm down there—I just want to be able to raise the temperature from about 15°C up to 20-21°C (59-70°F).
One of the contractors keeps trying to push electric heaters on me (because it’s less work for him), but I definitely do not want electric heating. We currently live in a house with a waterproof basement. As the first occupants, we had to keep the basement gently heated to keep it dry, and without continuous low-level heating, the basement would never have dried out. Heating 85 sqm (915 sq ft) electrically for three years straight is not a smart idea in my opinion.
Another contractor says, “No, flow temperatures that low won’t work; you need a completely different heating system with two heating circuits, etc.” My parents’ house was built in 1971, and for 20 years, we hardly ever set the flow temperature above 38°C (100°F)... it worked perfectly and drove the heating technician crazy!
So, has anyone here implemented something similar (underfloor heating on ground and upper floors, and regular radiators in the basement) and can share their experience? Or does anyone have other suggestions? Maybe wall or ceiling heating?
Thanks and best regards,
Andreas
We are planning to build a single-family house next year with about 170 sqm (1,830 sq ft) and a full basement. The basement will be constructed as a waterproof concrete structure (“WU slab”) with 100 mm (4 inches) perimeter insulation. Heating will be provided by a gas boiler (Vaillant Vitodens 300-W). Underfloor heating will be installed on the ground floor and upper floor, but the question is about the basement.
In the basement there will be an office (just for normal private use and occasionally working from home, so not permanent use), a workshop room, and a large room (40 sqm (430 sq ft)) used for general storage. This might eventually be divided to create a multipurpose room for the kids. So, a pretty normal basement.
I think equipping the basement fully with underfloor heating is excessive given the additional costs charged by several general contractors, with the highest quote being more than 50 euros per sqm (about $50 per sq ft) extra!
My plan is to install regular radiators on the walls in the basement, just one or two sizes larger than normal, and run them at a flow temperature of 35°C (95°F). That’s it. Is there any reason not to do this? It doesn’t need to be exceptionally warm down there—I just want to be able to raise the temperature from about 15°C up to 20-21°C (59-70°F).
One of the contractors keeps trying to push electric heaters on me (because it’s less work for him), but I definitely do not want electric heating. We currently live in a house with a waterproof basement. As the first occupants, we had to keep the basement gently heated to keep it dry, and without continuous low-level heating, the basement would never have dried out. Heating 85 sqm (915 sq ft) electrically for three years straight is not a smart idea in my opinion.
Another contractor says, “No, flow temperatures that low won’t work; you need a completely different heating system with two heating circuits, etc.” My parents’ house was built in 1971, and for 20 years, we hardly ever set the flow temperature above 38°C (100°F)... it worked perfectly and drove the heating technician crazy!
So, has anyone here implemented something similar (underfloor heating on ground and upper floors, and regular radiators in the basement) and can share their experience? Or does anyone have other suggestions? Maybe wall or ceiling heating?
Thanks and best regards,
Andreas
B
Bauexperte20 Oct 2015 11:08Hello Andreas,
Alternative: you could install a mixing valve, which would allow you to use the “regular” radiators. This is probably the most cost-effective solution in terms of capital and installation, although I consider installing underfloor heating more sensible overall—especially since you will be constructing a basement from precast concrete elements.
Regards, Bauexperte
andimann schrieb:Very economical if the basement is to be used temporarily as an office or similar. 120 mm costs more upfront, but in the long run—when lightly heating individual rooms—it can be less expensive.
The basement will be built as a waterproof concrete shell with 100 mm perimeter insulation,
andimann schrieb:Without “bridging the different supply temperatures,” you would need the low-temperature radiators described further below.
My plan would be to simply mount regular radiators on the basement walls...
Alternative: you could install a mixing valve, which would allow you to use the “regular” radiators. This is probably the most cost-effective solution in terms of capital and installation, although I consider installing underfloor heating more sensible overall—especially since you will be constructing a basement from precast concrete elements.
Regards, Bauexperte
S
Sebastian7920 Oct 2015 11:21Building expert, what benefit do the additional 2 cm provide, or how much do they save you annually on heating costs, considering they also increase the initial investment? Our structural engineer calculated 100 mm (4 inches) as sufficient for residential use—of course, with a buried basement. While skimming through various construction blogs, I often came across 8–10 cm (3–4 inches). Only Viebrockhaus mentioned something like an extreme 20 cm (8 inches), if I remember correctly...
Just asking objectively—do you understand?
Just asking objectively—do you understand?
Hi,
sorry if I wasn’t clear before.
Back to the beginning:
The additional cost of 7,500 euros is currently only for the underfloor heating on the ground floor and upper floor. I find that quite steep, but I hope I can negotiate a better price. Underfloor heating on the ground and upper floors is a fixed decision; the only question is how much extra we will have to pay. However, this is not the subject of my question.
This is only about the basement and which type of heating can be installed there. In the specifications of the various general contractors, you can find all options:
No heating or electric heating are not options for us.
So the remaining choices are
· water radiators on the wall
· underfloor heating
I should also mention that we currently live in a modern house (built in 2011) built to the KfW 70 standard at the time (renting, and now building ourselves). That house has a waterproof concrete basement with wall-mounted radiators. Since we also have radiators on the ground and upper floors there, we run slightly higher flow temperatures—around 45-50°C (113-122°F)—so the radiators respond quickly.
Heating costs for that house are already very low. We use 8,500 kWh to heat 130 sqm (1,399 sqft) of living space plus 50 sqm (538 sqft) of heated basement including hot water production. It’s hard to complain about that.
However, our experience in that house has been that a waterproof concrete basement must be heated; otherwise, you will face humidity problems.
That is why I want a heating system in the basement that can run continuously.
Best regards,
Andreas
sorry if I wasn’t clear before.
Back to the beginning:
The additional cost of 7,500 euros is currently only for the underfloor heating on the ground floor and upper floor. I find that quite steep, but I hope I can negotiate a better price. Underfloor heating on the ground and upper floors is a fixed decision; the only question is how much extra we will have to pay. However, this is not the subject of my question.
This is only about the basement and which type of heating can be installed there. In the specifications of the various general contractors, you can find all options:
- no heating at all
- electric radiators
- water radiators mounted on the wall
- underfloor heating in the basement as an option
No heating or electric heating are not options for us.
So the remaining choices are
· water radiators on the wall
· underfloor heating
I should also mention that we currently live in a modern house (built in 2011) built to the KfW 70 standard at the time (renting, and now building ourselves). That house has a waterproof concrete basement with wall-mounted radiators. Since we also have radiators on the ground and upper floors there, we run slightly higher flow temperatures—around 45-50°C (113-122°F)—so the radiators respond quickly.
Heating costs for that house are already very low. We use 8,500 kWh to heat 130 sqm (1,399 sqft) of living space plus 50 sqm (538 sqft) of heated basement including hot water production. It’s hard to complain about that.
However, our experience in that house has been that a waterproof concrete basement must be heated; otherwise, you will face humidity problems.
That is why I want a heating system in the basement that can run continuously.
Best regards,
Andreas
S
Sebastian7920 Oct 2015 11:25Above all, consider installing a ventilation system in the basement – this will prevent any issues with humidity.
B
Bauexperte20 Oct 2015 11:37Sebastian79 schrieb:
When skimming through various construction blogs, I often came across 8-10cm (3-4 inches). Only Viebrockhaus, I think, mentioned something around an incredible 20cm (8 inches)...We rarely go below 120 mm (5 inches) if the basement is intended to be used as a kind of living space. I don’t question this either; our experts know why they don’t go below this value.Sebastian79 schrieb:
Just a neutral question – you understand?I wrote that *I* consider it to be economical. That does not mean it can be directly applied 1:1 to every other construction project.Best regards, Bauexperte
S
Sebastian7920 Oct 2015 11:40My parents don’t even have perimeter insulation in their 1987 house, but the basement is finished living space and warm—please don’t ask me why that is.
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