ᐅ Radiators or underfloor heating: Which option is recommended in these circumstances?
Created on: 8 Mar 2018 17:29
J
jundb
Hello,
we are about to purchase/build a solid masonry semi-detached house of 142 sqm (1526 sq ft), KfW55 standard, from a developer. Standard/included are radiators on the first floor + second floor + attic, optionally there is underfloor heating for €5700 (plus presumably property transfer tax) only(!) on the ground floor (is that so, no need to argue about that).
I am inexperienced with underfloor heating myself, I have nothing against it, but I have not dreamed of it for decades (unlike a fireplace…) and I am used to radiators and have always managed well with them so far. Please no fundamental discussions about underfloor heating or radiators, medically, swollen feet, dust, “thermal comfort,” it “shouldn’t” be more expensive, etc., I fear there would only be back and forth here. I want to know your opinion on whether underfloor heating under these(!) circumstances makes sense, that is a real approx. €6000 (about $6500) extra cost, only on the ground floor (so only for the living room, kitchen, hallway, guest toilet (and these 4 areas would be controlled separately)) and in addition (regardless of financial or energy benefits or not, it is an old dream) a fireplace in the living room.
What I have read so far, I think:
- In terms of energy consumption, there is not much difference, more efficient due to low temperature operation, fine, but radiators are not that bad in a well-insulated new KfW55 house either. Somewhere on a professional sanitary trade association page I read about 10% less energy with underfloor heating in a new build, but since it is only one of three floors, maybe 5%, that is max about €50 (about $55) per year.
- My wife prefers underfloor heating so far, but without rational reasons or much experience, simply out of curiosity for something new and supposedly better. She often feels cold like many women, even when the room is warm, and I could imagine that in such phases she would prefer a radiating radiator that warms noticeably rather than a rather constant and slow to heat up underfloor heating. On the other hand, the fireplace would help with that.
- Since we generally prefer it rather cool/use little heating, I even imagine in the summer half of the year it could be better without underfloor heating if we want to cool down faster during a sudden weather change or, conversely, heat the living room within 1-2 hours during a sudden temperature drop.
- Another possible point against underfloor heating: the build quality and coordination of many subcontractors with this developer is not always great. Radiators, as far as I know (or am I mistaken?), are not as sensitive; not much can go wrong there, but a poorly installed underfloor heating system would, I believe, be unpleasant.
- The only real bigger argument for underfloor heating on the ground floor for me personally is the space gain from removing the radiators. We need to take a closer look at where they would be and how much they would be in the way; we do not yet have detailed plans. In the guest toilet and hallway, I don’t really care (since they would be used little anyway), leaving the one in the kitchen (I’ve also often heard that people simply left it out in open kitchen concepts like ours are planned). Then only the one in the living room remains.
Without the extra cost, I would take underfloor heating, but as it is and only to save 1-2 radiators on the ground floor, it does not seem worthwhile for us (under the described circumstances!).
Now it's your turn...
Thanks & regards
Jo
we are about to purchase/build a solid masonry semi-detached house of 142 sqm (1526 sq ft), KfW55 standard, from a developer. Standard/included are radiators on the first floor + second floor + attic, optionally there is underfloor heating for €5700 (plus presumably property transfer tax) only(!) on the ground floor (is that so, no need to argue about that).
I am inexperienced with underfloor heating myself, I have nothing against it, but I have not dreamed of it for decades (unlike a fireplace…) and I am used to radiators and have always managed well with them so far. Please no fundamental discussions about underfloor heating or radiators, medically, swollen feet, dust, “thermal comfort,” it “shouldn’t” be more expensive, etc., I fear there would only be back and forth here. I want to know your opinion on whether underfloor heating under these(!) circumstances makes sense, that is a real approx. €6000 (about $6500) extra cost, only on the ground floor (so only for the living room, kitchen, hallway, guest toilet (and these 4 areas would be controlled separately)) and in addition (regardless of financial or energy benefits or not, it is an old dream) a fireplace in the living room.
What I have read so far, I think:
- In terms of energy consumption, there is not much difference, more efficient due to low temperature operation, fine, but radiators are not that bad in a well-insulated new KfW55 house either. Somewhere on a professional sanitary trade association page I read about 10% less energy with underfloor heating in a new build, but since it is only one of three floors, maybe 5%, that is max about €50 (about $55) per year.
- My wife prefers underfloor heating so far, but without rational reasons or much experience, simply out of curiosity for something new and supposedly better. She often feels cold like many women, even when the room is warm, and I could imagine that in such phases she would prefer a radiating radiator that warms noticeably rather than a rather constant and slow to heat up underfloor heating. On the other hand, the fireplace would help with that.
- Since we generally prefer it rather cool/use little heating, I even imagine in the summer half of the year it could be better without underfloor heating if we want to cool down faster during a sudden weather change or, conversely, heat the living room within 1-2 hours during a sudden temperature drop.
- Another possible point against underfloor heating: the build quality and coordination of many subcontractors with this developer is not always great. Radiators, as far as I know (or am I mistaken?), are not as sensitive; not much can go wrong there, but a poorly installed underfloor heating system would, I believe, be unpleasant.
- The only real bigger argument for underfloor heating on the ground floor for me personally is the space gain from removing the radiators. We need to take a closer look at where they would be and how much they would be in the way; we do not yet have detailed plans. In the guest toilet and hallway, I don’t really care (since they would be used little anyway), leaving the one in the kitchen (I’ve also often heard that people simply left it out in open kitchen concepts like ours are planned). Then only the one in the living room remains.
Without the extra cost, I would take underfloor heating, but as it is and only to save 1-2 radiators on the ground floor, it does not seem worthwhile for us (under the described circumstances!).
Now it's your turn...
Thanks & regards
Jo
Joedreck schrieb:
Out of curiosity: what advantages does the project offer if the buyer can’t even choose the current state of the art? If the builder admits that the quality of workmanship is not great and is afraid that the plumber won’t manage to install underfloor heating properly, it probably only comes down to the price. On top of that, the claim that only radiators are installed on the upper floor. But the market situation currently just allows for that.
What bothers me much more is the poor workmanship, having underfloor heating on the ground floor and radiators elsewhere. How are those supposed to get warm at a supply temperature of about 35°C (95°F) anyway...
I assume there are two separate circuits then.
Higher supply temperatures with the heat pump severely reduce efficiency. That means consumption increases significantly. And radiators require much higher supply temperatures than underfloor heating.
Okay, thanks!
Out of curiosity: what advantages does the project have if the buyer can’t even choose the latest technology?
We don’t have to end up on the street for a few years starting next year, and we can manage with a loan about 100,000 € smaller now, so I won’t have sleepless nights for the next 15 years worrying about what happens if I lose my job or similar.
Unfortunately, building or buying a house isn’t always a 100% wish fulfillment in every region, especially when you need something close to Frankfurt at short notice for work and don’t want a 1-2 hour one-way commute...
Is that enough?
I assume there are two separate circuits then.
Higher supply temperatures with the heat pump severely reduce efficiency. That means consumption increases significantly. And radiators require much higher supply temperatures than underfloor heating.
Okay, thanks!
Out of curiosity: what advantages does the project have if the buyer can’t even choose the latest technology?
We don’t have to end up on the street for a few years starting next year, and we can manage with a loan about 100,000 € smaller now, so I won’t have sleepless nights for the next 15 years worrying about what happens if I lose my job or similar.
Unfortunately, building or buying a house isn’t always a 100% wish fulfillment in every region, especially when you need something close to Frankfurt at short notice for work and don’t want a 1-2 hour one-way commute...
Is that enough?
Take the radiators. They seem to be the best fit for the planned system. Most likely, a high flow temperature will already be supplied to the house through the central heating.
Spending 6000 euros on underfloor heating on the ground floor is ridiculous. You should get some informal advice on why it is so expensive. Understanding the situation can sometimes help.
Spending 6000 euros on underfloor heating on the ground floor is ridiculous. You should get some informal advice on why it is so expensive. Understanding the situation can sometimes help.
K
Knallkörper8 Mar 2018 21:01If I were you, I would go with radiators. Nowadays, there are quite attractive options available. Your heating system doesn’t require high flow temperatures, so you won’t incur additional energy costs. Of course, it’s not exactly modern, but it does have its advantages. Naturally, underfloor heating is quite slow to respond.
Jundb,
if you have a heat pump, it is generally recommended to use underfloor heating because of the low supply temperature. I once read that very large panel radiators are also made, so you have radiators that work with a low supply temperature. This is supposedly even more efficient since you don’t need to heat the entire floor to warm the house. Just for your information, I wouldn’t choose this myself because it is rarely done.
For your information, for a 140 sqm (1506 sq ft) bungalow with underfloor heating, we will pay about 5,000 € more, but you can’t compare everything directly—for example, our building contract (BU) for a carport with a storage room cost 15,000 €, or 1,500 € for a satellite system, which I find relatively expensive.
Another advantage of underfloor heating: walking barefoot at home and having warm feet.
One more point: if you have underfloor heating on the ground floor and radiators upstairs, make sure you have two separate circuits; otherwise, either the underfloor heating will get too warm or the radiators too cold.
if you have a heat pump, it is generally recommended to use underfloor heating because of the low supply temperature. I once read that very large panel radiators are also made, so you have radiators that work with a low supply temperature. This is supposedly even more efficient since you don’t need to heat the entire floor to warm the house. Just for your information, I wouldn’t choose this myself because it is rarely done.
For your information, for a 140 sqm (1506 sq ft) bungalow with underfloor heating, we will pay about 5,000 € more, but you can’t compare everything directly—for example, our building contract (BU) for a carport with a storage room cost 15,000 €, or 1,500 € for a satellite system, which I find relatively expensive.
Another advantage of underfloor heating: walking barefoot at home and having warm feet.
One more point: if you have underfloor heating on the ground floor and radiators upstairs, make sure you have two separate circuits; otherwise, either the underfloor heating will get too warm or the radiators too cold.
Similar topics