Hello,
we are planning to completely renovate a large single-family house with a basement apartment from 1976 (well-maintained original condition) in a very good location, including energy-related upgrades. According to a first rough estimate by a renovation company, the costs to meet our requirements will likely be between 200,000 and 250,000 euros. This range roughly matches our own budget expectations.
The ceiling height is typical for the construction year, about 2.40 meters (7 feet 10 inches) from floor to ceiling. Unfortunately, the interior doors are also typical for the period, just under 2 meters (6 feet 7 inches) high, and on the ground floor there are beams with a clearance height between the floor and the underside of the beam of just under 2 meters (6 feet 7 inches). I am 1.94 meters tall (6 feet 4 inches), and with shoes I am around 1.96–1.97 meters (6 feet 5 inches–6 feet 6 inches). Passing through standard doors (usually about 1.985 meters [6 feet 6 inches]) is sometimes uncomfortable for me. Therefore, sufficient clear height in doors and under beams/supports is very important. Doors and openings around 2.10 meters (6 feet 11 inches) or higher feel comfortable to me and no longer "restrictive."
The renovation company employee told me that raising the doors to about 2.11 meters (6 feet 11 inches) in non-load-bearing walls is no problem. For raising the door lintel, the cost is roughly 200 euros per door, and the new door depending on quality costs between 350 and 500 euros. Since we plan to replace the old doors anyway, the additional cost for higher doors would be about 250 to 300 euros. This is definitely worth it to me!
For load-bearing walls and beams it seems much more difficult and expensive to increase the clearance height. But how complicated and costly is this exactly? Can you help me with that?
I will attach excerpts of the building plans. I am particularly interested in your assessment of beams 109, 110, and 113, as well as the door at position 111. How difficult and expensive would it be to raise the clearance height of these elements?
we are planning to completely renovate a large single-family house with a basement apartment from 1976 (well-maintained original condition) in a very good location, including energy-related upgrades. According to a first rough estimate by a renovation company, the costs to meet our requirements will likely be between 200,000 and 250,000 euros. This range roughly matches our own budget expectations.
The ceiling height is typical for the construction year, about 2.40 meters (7 feet 10 inches) from floor to ceiling. Unfortunately, the interior doors are also typical for the period, just under 2 meters (6 feet 7 inches) high, and on the ground floor there are beams with a clearance height between the floor and the underside of the beam of just under 2 meters (6 feet 7 inches). I am 1.94 meters tall (6 feet 4 inches), and with shoes I am around 1.96–1.97 meters (6 feet 5 inches–6 feet 6 inches). Passing through standard doors (usually about 1.985 meters [6 feet 6 inches]) is sometimes uncomfortable for me. Therefore, sufficient clear height in doors and under beams/supports is very important. Doors and openings around 2.10 meters (6 feet 11 inches) or higher feel comfortable to me and no longer "restrictive."
The renovation company employee told me that raising the doors to about 2.11 meters (6 feet 11 inches) in non-load-bearing walls is no problem. For raising the door lintel, the cost is roughly 200 euros per door, and the new door depending on quality costs between 350 and 500 euros. Since we plan to replace the old doors anyway, the additional cost for higher doors would be about 250 to 300 euros. This is definitely worth it to me!
For load-bearing walls and beams it seems much more difficult and expensive to increase the clearance height. But how complicated and costly is this exactly? Can you help me with that?
I will attach excerpts of the building plans. I am particularly interested in your assessment of beams 109, 110, and 113, as well as the door at position 111. How difficult and expensive would it be to raise the clearance height of these elements?
TomB schrieb:
...The floor-to-ceiling height is typical for the building’s construction year, about 2.40 m (7 ft 10 in). In my opinion, that’s a no-go (and I’m not even 1.94 m (6 ft 4 in) tall), especially in rooms with a larger floor area. Even in some new buildings, you can find clear ceiling heights that feel downright oppressive! Many homeowners who bought based on a brochure only realize this problem too late, when nothing can be changed anymore! TomB schrieb:
...But how difficult and expensive is that? Can you help me out? Should we provide you with a structural analysis along with a cost estimate? TomB schrieb:
...How difficult/costly is it to increase the clear height of these sections? Ask your contractor; they will share their calculation with you! Best regards.
B
Bauexperte27 Nov 2012 10:18Hello,
The location of the plot must be very attractive, because with the projected renovation costs plus purchase price, building a new house (almost) would have been possible as well.
To remove such a beam, the load of the ceiling above must be temporarily supported. Only then can the visible beam be removed and replaced with a flush beam at ceiling level. Of course, the thickness of the ceiling plays a crucial role in whether the new beam can actually be installed flush – a structural engineer must be consulted; I would not rely solely on the statement of a renovation contractor in your position.
From a cost perspective, this is an expensive "undertaking," as it requires a lot of skilled labor: supporting/shoring the floor slab, removing the old beam, preparing the ceiling to receive the flush beam, installing the new beam, and finishing the wall and ceiling, including masonry and plastering work. This adds up to several hours per beam to be replaced … plus materials and the cost of updated structural calculations.
Kind regards
TomB schrieb:
According to an initial rough estimate from a renovation company, meeting our expectations will likely cost between 200,000 and 250,000 euros.
The location of the plot must be very attractive, because with the projected renovation costs plus purchase price, building a new house (almost) would have been possible as well.
TomB schrieb:
Raising the clearance height of load-bearing walls and beams is probably much more difficult and expensive. But how difficult and costly is this exactly? Can you help me with this?
To remove such a beam, the load of the ceiling above must be temporarily supported. Only then can the visible beam be removed and replaced with a flush beam at ceiling level. Of course, the thickness of the ceiling plays a crucial role in whether the new beam can actually be installed flush – a structural engineer must be consulted; I would not rely solely on the statement of a renovation contractor in your position.
From a cost perspective, this is an expensive "undertaking," as it requires a lot of skilled labor: supporting/shoring the floor slab, removing the old beam, preparing the ceiling to receive the flush beam, installing the new beam, and finishing the wall and ceiling, including masonry and plastering work. This adds up to several hours per beam to be replaced … plus materials and the cost of updated structural calculations.
Kind regards
Thanks for your input.
@€uro: I’m fine with a ceiling height of 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in). Of course, 2.7 m (8 ft 10 in) would be nicer. But for me, the important factor is the height of the window tops. If the window frame starts at 1.9 m (6 ft 3 in) or even 1.8 m (5 ft 11 in), it feels oppressive. It’s worst when you have to bend down to see the horizon. If the window (the glass surface) ends at 2.1 or 2.2 m (6 ft 11 in / 7 ft 3 in), it feels open to me—even if the ceiling height is only 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in). I live in an apartment with a “only” 2.45 m (8 ft) ceiling but very tall windows/glass surfaces.
High windows would also be relatively easy to implement in this house. The new windows can be raised by the height of the roller shutter box. Instead of roller shutters, we plan to install external blinds on the main windows anyway.
> Should we provide you with structural calculations including cost planning?
No, I’m interested in different suggestions for how to implement this and rough cost estimates. Bauexperte described an approach in their response. Is it also possible to reduce the height of existing beams and restore the lost stability, for example, with a steel beam? I only need 10 cm (4 inches) of height. Maybe 5 cm (2 inches) could be enough.
@Bauexperte:
> Then the location of the property must be very appealing, because with the planned
> renovation volume plus acquisition costs, (almost) a new build would also have been feasible.
The property is in the Stuttgart metropolitan area, Ludwigsburg district. Five minutes to the train station and still adjacent to a water protection area and fields. It’s very quiet. The location is really nice. The plot is almost 6 ares (600 m² / 6,460 sq ft). In new development areas in this town, the price per square meter goes up to 380 euros. But the new development area’s location is not quite as attractive... Here in the south it’s a bit more expensive than, for example, around the Mecklenburg Lake District :-(
Is it absolutely necessary to raise the existing beam? I don’t need a continuous ceiling height of 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in). For structuring, for example, the large living/dining area, I don’t find beams that bad. It just needs to allow enough clear headroom.
@€uro: I’m fine with a ceiling height of 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in). Of course, 2.7 m (8 ft 10 in) would be nicer. But for me, the important factor is the height of the window tops. If the window frame starts at 1.9 m (6 ft 3 in) or even 1.8 m (5 ft 11 in), it feels oppressive. It’s worst when you have to bend down to see the horizon. If the window (the glass surface) ends at 2.1 or 2.2 m (6 ft 11 in / 7 ft 3 in), it feels open to me—even if the ceiling height is only 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in). I live in an apartment with a “only” 2.45 m (8 ft) ceiling but very tall windows/glass surfaces.
High windows would also be relatively easy to implement in this house. The new windows can be raised by the height of the roller shutter box. Instead of roller shutters, we plan to install external blinds on the main windows anyway.
> Should we provide you with structural calculations including cost planning?
No, I’m interested in different suggestions for how to implement this and rough cost estimates. Bauexperte described an approach in their response. Is it also possible to reduce the height of existing beams and restore the lost stability, for example, with a steel beam? I only need 10 cm (4 inches) of height. Maybe 5 cm (2 inches) could be enough.
@Bauexperte:
> Then the location of the property must be very appealing, because with the planned
> renovation volume plus acquisition costs, (almost) a new build would also have been feasible.
The property is in the Stuttgart metropolitan area, Ludwigsburg district. Five minutes to the train station and still adjacent to a water protection area and fields. It’s very quiet. The location is really nice. The plot is almost 6 ares (600 m² / 6,460 sq ft). In new development areas in this town, the price per square meter goes up to 380 euros. But the new development area’s location is not quite as attractive... Here in the south it’s a bit more expensive than, for example, around the Mecklenburg Lake District :-(
Is it absolutely necessary to raise the existing beam? I don’t need a continuous ceiling height of 2.4 m (7 ft 10 in). For structuring, for example, the large living/dining area, I don’t find beams that bad. It just needs to allow enough clear headroom.
B
Bauexperte27 Nov 2012 13:19Hello,
I assume the installed beams are structurally necessary – so if you remove something “below,” it must be compensated “above” to maintain the house’s stability along the entire length of the original beam. Therefore, a lot of mess is unavoidable either way, so in my opinion, you might as well remove the entire beam and replace it with a new flush ceiling beam.
If there are alternative solutions, only a structural engineer familiar with the complete “old” structural plans can develop them.
Kind regards
TomB schrieb:
Is it absolutely necessary to remove the existing beam? I don’t need a continuous ceiling height of 2.4m (7 ft 10 in). For structuring, for example, the large living/dining area, I don’t mind beams at all. There just needs to be sufficient headroom.
I assume the installed beams are structurally necessary – so if you remove something “below,” it must be compensated “above” to maintain the house’s stability along the entire length of the original beam. Therefore, a lot of mess is unavoidable either way, so in my opinion, you might as well remove the entire beam and replace it with a new flush ceiling beam.
If there are alternative solutions, only a structural engineer familiar with the complete “old” structural plans can develop them.
Kind regards
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