ᐅ Low ridge height results in a short knee wall.

hanse987 schrieb:

The planners simply don’t want a (semi-)detached townhouse in this development area. Usually, you check the zoning plan or site development plan in advance to see if your ideas fit. The plan is available for public review at the local authority for one month before it is approved. During this time, you can see the direction it’s heading and also submit objections if needed.

When I first read: 7.20 meters (24 feet) height, I didn’t think much of it, assuming 2 x 2.80 meters (9 feet) per floor would be enough for two stories, > 500 square meters (5,382 square feet), that should work. By now, I have at least learned which data really matter...

The zoning plan is almost 20 years old...

Otherwise, good luck finding your dream plot!
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Good point. We’ll see if... I’m considering a new approach, since I’m actually completely flexible regarding location.

Escroda schrieb:

And this, when you just calculated for us that there are at least 60m² (645 sq ft) of "real" living space upstairs, plus the possibility of dormers?

What exactly do you want? You haven’t really given the forum, the city officials, or the home builders a chance to show you any options.

This is roughly how we live today: I would call it 1.5 stories. That would be acceptable.

Yes, I do expect a first response from the second provider after the holidays.

ruedigold schrieb:

The development plan is very old

ruedigold schrieb:

The development plan is almost 20 years old...

This shows how differently time periods can be perceived. For me, a 20-year-old development plan is relatively recent. Truly old are setback line plans from 1889, which are still legally valid in many cities today.

ruedigold schrieb:

That would be fine.

We still don’t know your requirements or the exact regulations of the development plan. Nevertheless, here is my summary based on the information so far:

In the area of the dormers (what size would be allowed according to the development plan?), there would be more space than in the existing structure. Even in the sloped roof area up to the relevant living space line at 1.50 meters (5 feet), there are no losses. Additionally, the ground floor is wider.
Of course, following your incremental approach, you might again quote some details from the development plan that make the above impossible or unacceptable. In that case, you really should consider releasing the lots again, because there are always countless arguments against any construction.

ruedigold schrieb:

"Dear prospective homeowner, please note that this house will most likely not be permitted on a plot of land as typically designated by most municipalities."

I do not see this overreaction reflected in the actual development situation. The vacuum cleaner knee wall is something I mostly encounter here on the forum only in Franconia and Rhineland-Palatinate. What you need to pay attention to in your desired zoning plan profile is, even if a pitched roof is allowed, the permissibility of a second full story.

Escroda schrieb:

What exactly do you want? You haven’t really given the forum, the city officials, or the home builders a chance to show you any options.

Exactly: that’s what I already said, fill out the questionnaire and something will come from the community. For example, I already suggested a knee wall instead of a dormer wall.

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11ant schrieb:


The core question of this forum can be found at the top of the floor plan section as a questionnaire. Copy it into your house planning thread, place it in the first post there, and then link to it here. By completing the questionnaire, you help the community to advise you.

Sorry if I’m causing confusion. Terms are coming at me that I’ve never heard before and can’t make sense of... etc. I understand that building is not possible in a legal vacuum... etc., etc.

I’ve been a tenant my whole life. Personally, I’m starting from scratch.

That’s why I wanted to reach out to a former good acquaintance who once built a house himself with a lot of personal effort and ideas, and therefore has a wealth of experience. Unfortunately, he doesn’t have the time to accompany me as a building supervisor. I know I’m fumbling around here in the forum, and I’m honestly grateful to be noticed.
By the way... as an ex-something, I allow myself some critical remarks about authorities... I’ve already planned how I will approach them after their well-deserved holidays...
For now, I maintain my criticism of the prefab house manufacturer. After showing the building permit / planning permission, the sellers casually gave me the impression: it’ll be fine, no problem, we can do it.

Let’s stick to the facts: Not a single one of the 25 single-family houses in Frechen (excluding two-story ones) can actually be built on the designated building plots. The central and only limiting factor is the 7.20m (23 ft 7 in). This is exactly what the picture from Esroda shows.
At least two of them in Frechen are set up exactly as I would like. What does that mean? These are characterful houses that I would rent as they are. As a tenant, you accept a hundred compromises; only the overall package has to be right.

For example, where we have lived for 17 years: huge living and usable area, finished 80 sqm (860 sq ft) basement apartment, 3 garages/sheds, large lawn that we are allowed to use for playing soccer but is not in the rental contract, barbecue area, no disturbances, no barking neighbor dogs, but swallows in the garage, hedgehogs in the grass, fireplace, oak doors and stairs, brick house, the outdoor stairs apparently cost 25,000 DM (Deutsche Marks), etc., etc... all for an affordable rent. The owners are not after money but want respectable tenants.

In short: my risk of ending up worse off in the overall combination of factors, meaning the sum of all living comforts as a whole, is high. There are posts here in the forum where people say, “Oh, if only I had stayed in my old house...” If I had to say it like that... arghhh.

Now about the questionnaire. I am happy to fill it out, but I can’t find it. Thanks for your patience so far.

ruedigold schrieb:

Now about the questionnaire. I would be happy to fill it out, but I can’t find it.

It’s actually unmistakably located here: https://www.hausbau-forum.de/threads/grundrissplanung-unbedingt-vor-Beitrag-Erstellung-lesen.11714/

ruedigold schrieb:

Terms are coming at me that I’ve never heard before and can’t place....

Go ahead, tell me more...

ruedigold schrieb:

After showing the seller the zoning plan, they casually gave me the impression: it’s doable, it fits, we can manage it.

Commissions can really lead to bad advice :-(

ruedigold schrieb:

Not a single one of the 25 single-family houses from Frechen (none are two-story) can actually be built on the designated building plots.

That may be the case in your building area. But no one sets up an entire prefab house exhibition only with examples that wouldn’t be feasible locally.

ruedigold schrieb:

The owners of the house are not after money, but want reliable tenants.
In short: my risk of ending up worse off overall — considering the sum of all living comfort elements together — is high. There are posts in this forum where people say, “Oh, if only I had stayed in my old house”… If I had to put it that way… arghhh.

From your description, you’d probably be advised to stay put. However, if your nice landlords pass it on or sell it, you might already feel too old to make a move (?)

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