ᐅ KfW40 standard, heat pump / solar system, timber frame / solid construction?
Created on: 25 Feb 2009 16:42
A
Azalee
Hello, forum!
The question above naturally comes up again and again. In general, there is an overwhelming amount of information on the topic of construction methods. Our problem with this is that the information and/or experience reports are often "biased," meaning they usually come from timber construction or masonry suppliers directly or from their agents.
After extensive research, we have the impression that both construction methods have their pros and cons, but we (so far) do not feel able to make a decision for ourselves. We want a house that meets KfW40 standard, is very well insulated, heated with a heat pump, equipped with a solar system for at least hot water, and has a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery. Not least because of the planned location on a gentle north-facing slope, many and large windows are important (floor-to-ceiling where possible).
Here is what I hear/read about timber / masonry:
Masonry houses (brick or block construction, stone on stone)
+ tend to retain their value better for resale, are more value-stable,
+ provide better sound insulation, which in timber construction is only achieved with special additional effort (to what extent is this now standard?),
+ stay cooler longer in summer,
- have a longer construction time, need drying.
Timber houses (mainly timber frame construction)
+ generally "healthier" (indoor climate, natural materials...),
+ require thinner walls for the same insulation,
+ are built faster,
- heat up quickly in summer,
- are more prone to noise transmission.
The list could go on, but these points (along with price) are particularly important to us.
What matters to us:
It would be great if you could give us advice based on this on which construction method would be more suitable for us. Certainly, both timber and masonry can meet our requirements, but perhaps more investment or specific considerations and optimizations are needed with one method than with the other.
If any important information is missing, I’ll be happy to provide it.
Thanks and best regards
Christiane
The question above naturally comes up again and again. In general, there is an overwhelming amount of information on the topic of construction methods. Our problem with this is that the information and/or experience reports are often "biased," meaning they usually come from timber construction or masonry suppliers directly or from their agents.
After extensive research, we have the impression that both construction methods have their pros and cons, but we (so far) do not feel able to make a decision for ourselves. We want a house that meets KfW40 standard, is very well insulated, heated with a heat pump, equipped with a solar system for at least hot water, and has a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery. Not least because of the planned location on a gentle north-facing slope, many and large windows are important (floor-to-ceiling where possible).
Here is what I hear/read about timber / masonry:
Masonry houses (brick or block construction, stone on stone)
+ tend to retain their value better for resale, are more value-stable,
+ provide better sound insulation, which in timber construction is only achieved with special additional effort (to what extent is this now standard?),
+ stay cooler longer in summer,
- have a longer construction time, need drying.
Timber houses (mainly timber frame construction)
+ generally "healthier" (indoor climate, natural materials...),
+ require thinner walls for the same insulation,
+ are built faster,
- heat up quickly in summer,
- are more prone to noise transmission.
The list could go on, but these points (along with price) are particularly important to us.
What matters to us:
- very good insulation ("insulate first, then heat")
- good soundproofing, especially inside the house, because we (and later probably the children) make a lot of music
- the house stays pleasantly cool in summer (noticeably cooler than outside, though this probably also depends on the ventilation; however, we do not want air conditioning)
- a floor plan tailored to our plot (gentle north-facing slope, careful room and terrace orientation important for the layout, e.g., a slanted living/dining area conceivable, one or two balconies upstairs, large windows, one or two bay windows, etc.)
- at least a partial basement (built into the slope), though preferably a full basement
- our saltwater aquarium. Several liters of water evaporate daily and reportedly a minimal salt content builds up in the air with saltwater, even though it’s predominantly pure water that evaporates at first.
It would be great if you could give us advice based on this on which construction method would be more suitable for us. Certainly, both timber and masonry can meet our requirements, but perhaps more investment or specific considerations and optimizations are needed with one method than with the other.
If any important information is missing, I’ll be happy to provide it.
Thanks and best regards
Christiane
H
Honigkuchen26 Feb 2009 09:52JOERG24 schrieb:
I think the question about construction time is pointless – it really always depends on the provider. Looking at the Massivbau AG situation, you find the same cases everywhere, whether it’s solid construction, prefab, timber, or a developer.
Building a house is one of the last true adventures.That’s unfortunately true. You never know what can happen; there are so many variables, and most of them are impossible to calculate.
JOERG24 schrieb:
Often, I also think homeowners themselves aren’t adequately prepared, and some decisions have to be corrected relatively late.
I was really shocked when many consultants said we had dealt with the topic extraordinarily thoroughly. Many seem not to engage at all with the important technical details.Yes, we feel the same way – well, over the last few months I’ve read through all kinds of books, magazines, forums, websites, etc.… my head is spinning, but at least I now understand some basic structures and can communicate on a better level with the architect and the builder.
Based on my experience, I live by the saying:
“If you don’t do it, no one will.” In other words:
I know what I want, or I have to find out, and then make sure it is done exactly as I want it (and that it makes sense; of course, it’s important to take well-intended advice from professionals).
At the very beginning, we visited a prefab house provider, and my questions made them so uncomfortable that they politely left us and started working with another couple...
The architects I’m currently dealing with see it both positively and negatively that we are better informed; positively because they don’t have to explain or emphasize some things to us, but negatively because we know what’s going on and they can’t just sell us something useless, but profitable for them.
Also, the architect has to be really good and dedicated to his work because he knows he will have trouble otherwise.
Oh man, I’m already really excited...
I hope everything will turn out well with the house construction.
Best regards
Honigkuchen
Yes, the quality of consultants varies greatly.
- It ranges from true experts to people who were still selling jeans a few months ago.
After 5-6 consultant meetings, you gain valuable knowledge for both the building process and life in general.
I believe a balanced approach works best here. Some really good experts tended to focus too much on technical details and their own preferences rather than on cost-effective solutions.
I would recommend everyone to allow at least one year to acquire the necessary knowledge and to thoroughly evaluate individual solutions, carefully weighing their pros and cons.
Many building solutions are not universally good but depend on various influencing factors. A lot is also presented in an overly positive light or calculated optimistically when you look at it closely.
- It ranges from true experts to people who were still selling jeans a few months ago.
After 5-6 consultant meetings, you gain valuable knowledge for both the building process and life in general.
I believe a balanced approach works best here. Some really good experts tended to focus too much on technical details and their own preferences rather than on cost-effective solutions.
I would recommend everyone to allow at least one year to acquire the necessary knowledge and to thoroughly evaluate individual solutions, carefully weighing their pros and cons.
Many building solutions are not universally good but depend on various influencing factors. A lot is also presented in an overly positive light or calculated optimistically when you look at it closely.
H
Honigkuchen26 Feb 2009 10:32JOERG24 schrieb:
Yes, the quality of consultants varies very, very much.
- Anything from true professionals to people who were still selling jeans a few months ago.
After 5-6 consultations, you gain valuable knowledge for both the construction process and life in general.
I think a balanced approach is best. Some really skilled experts tend to focus too much on technical details and their preferences rather than on cost-effective solutions.
I would recommend everyone to take at least one year to acquire the necessary knowledge and to thoroughly examine the pros and cons of individual solutions.
Many construction solutions are not universally good but depend on numerous accompanying factors. A lot is also sugar-coated or over-calculated when you look into it more closely.I can fully agree with this.
Hello, both of you!
Wow, thank you so much for your detailed reply!
We had already decided on a ventilation system, which nowadays is almost standard and should not cause any issues regarding hygiene and humidity. Of course, the exact system should be carefully chosen and not just the first one suggested.
We are currently consulting with professionals as well. We visited a solid construction developer—meaning masonry built, customized according to individual preferences. From what we’ve heard locally, they have a good reputation but are not exactly cheap. You still need to pay attention to the details yourself, though: for example, during a shell construction site inspection, we noticed that old network cables were being used. We plan to ask the company about this in the next meeting; maybe the builders wanted to save costs there.
We are also scheduling appointments with an architect who works with timber-framed houses. We happened to meet the owner of the timber construction company, and he made a good impression. Additionally, we are looking for alternatives to the first solid construction developer, as there doesn’t seem to be much choice here in northern Hesse.
Some colleagues of mine have a timber house; we’ll be visiting them soon, and then their children will have a chance to really make some noise upstairs.
I’m sure there will be more questions to come.
Thanks and best regards,
Christiane
Wow, thank you so much for your detailed reply!
We had already decided on a ventilation system, which nowadays is almost standard and should not cause any issues regarding hygiene and humidity. Of course, the exact system should be carefully chosen and not just the first one suggested.
We are currently consulting with professionals as well. We visited a solid construction developer—meaning masonry built, customized according to individual preferences. From what we’ve heard locally, they have a good reputation but are not exactly cheap. You still need to pay attention to the details yourself, though: for example, during a shell construction site inspection, we noticed that old network cables were being used. We plan to ask the company about this in the next meeting; maybe the builders wanted to save costs there.
We are also scheduling appointments with an architect who works with timber-framed houses. We happened to meet the owner of the timber construction company, and he made a good impression. Additionally, we are looking for alternatives to the first solid construction developer, as there doesn’t seem to be much choice here in northern Hesse.
Some colleagues of mine have a timber house; we’ll be visiting them soon, and then their children will have a chance to really make some noise upstairs.
I’m sure there will be more questions to come.
Thanks and best regards,
Christiane
Hello!
Just to give you a quick update: The decision is basically made, and we will be building a wooden house, using timber frame construction. Especially when aiming for nearly zero-energy houses (we are targeting KfW 40), wooden houses seem to have an advantage because they provide excellent insulation with ecological materials without requiring extremely thick walls.
We have already found two companies that both build sustainably, for example using insulation made from cellulose and wood fiber. Now we are moving forward with our initial planning so that the potential builders can give us approximate price estimates.
Best regards,
Christiane
Just to give you a quick update: The decision is basically made, and we will be building a wooden house, using timber frame construction. Especially when aiming for nearly zero-energy houses (we are targeting KfW 40), wooden houses seem to have an advantage because they provide excellent insulation with ecological materials without requiring extremely thick walls.
We have already found two companies that both build sustainably, for example using insulation made from cellulose and wood fiber. Now we are moving forward with our initial planning so that the potential builders can give us approximate price estimates.
Best regards,
Christiane
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