Good morning,
Yesterday we had a conversation with a general contractor. We mentioned that we would like to have a 365mm (14.4 inches) wall (Ytong or Poroton). The immediate response was: he doesn’t think much of that; 240mm (9.4 inches) with 120mm (4.7 inches) of Styrofoam insulation is much better than the 365mm wall.
He also said that the energy efficiency rating would drop from A (+) to D?!
I’m starting to not know what to believe anymore... everyone says something different.
What do the experts here say?
Thanks in advance.
PS: I also asked, because I had read and heard somewhere that aerated concrete (Porenbeton) is easier to work with than Poroton. The response was that this is complete nonsense... oops.
Best regards,
Steven
Yesterday we had a conversation with a general contractor. We mentioned that we would like to have a 365mm (14.4 inches) wall (Ytong or Poroton). The immediate response was: he doesn’t think much of that; 240mm (9.4 inches) with 120mm (4.7 inches) of Styrofoam insulation is much better than the 365mm wall.
He also said that the energy efficiency rating would drop from A (+) to D?!
I’m starting to not know what to believe anymore... everyone says something different.
What do the experts here say?
Thanks in advance.
PS: I also asked, because I had read and heard somewhere that aerated concrete (Porenbeton) is easier to work with than Poroton. The response was that this is complete nonsense... oops.
Best regards,
Steven
Joedreck schrieb:
Does Ytong have a membrane, or why is it supposed to be breathable?It literally gasps for air. Wheezes, struggles, coughs. If you spray it with peppermint, it breathes through.
Mottenhausen schrieb:
U-values according to Ubakus.de:
36.5cm (14.4 inches) Ytong: 0.26
36.5cm (14.4 inches) Poroton: 0.21
24cm (9.4 inches) Ytong + 12cm (4.7 inches) external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS): 0.18
24cm (9.4 inches) Poroton + 12cm (4.7 inches) ETICS: 0.16BMW: 240hp
Mercedes: 190hp
Audi: 210hp
VW: 170hp
You can’t generalize like that. It depends on the specific models.
And which one is more expensive depends largely on the region and the installer rather than the assumption that one is simply cheaper than the other.
Basically, it’s correct to first consider what is particularly important to you.
BMW 61,000 euros, Mercedes 62,000, Audi 61,500, VW 45,000. Who offers the most economical horsepower to identical U-value ratio? Monolithic construction with Ytong is simply the cheapest option in northern Germany, so I don’t care about 10 euros more heating costs per month. By the time I have recovered the additional cost of all those U-value KfW requirements, I’ll be dead.
N
Nissandriver11 Jul 2019 06:51Good morning,
sorry for writing only now!
So the heating system should be an air-to-water heat pump or geothermal with underfloor heating.
Regarding thermal insulation… you say Ytong is moderate and Poroton is good for thermal insulation. I have read something different. So which is it? Is there any report or test available?
But thanks anyway.
OT:
With today’s car models, unfortunately, the engines are overstressed… What use is a 1.4L with 170HP? Before, there was a 2.0L with 150–170HP… -> Higher consumption and shorter engine life.
From what I have seen on Benz24, the total cost between Poroton and Ytong is not really different..
PS: Edit: Although I just noticed that Ytong 365 would even be cheaper…
Good point =)
sorry for writing only now!
Mottenhausen schrieb:
which might be why he thought energy efficiency is very important to you
which is not really wrong:
U-values according to Ubakus.de:
36.5cm (14 inches) Ytong: 0.26
36.5cm (14 inches) Poroton: 0.21
24cm (9.5 inches) Ytong + 12cm (5 inches) ETICS: 0.18
24cm (9.5 inches) Poroton + 12cm (5 inches) ETICS: 0.16
You can’t really say anything general without knowing the heating system, etc., but an energy class A+ is easily achievable with 24cm (9.5 inches) Poroton and 12cm (5 inches) external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS), while with a poor (heavy/cheap) 36.5cm (14 inches) Ytong you probably have to be satisfied with around a D rating. That doesn’t sound unrealistic (the above U-values were calculated for a medium-density Ytong).
This is normal in construction: ask five people and you’ll get ten opinions. Everyone thinks they know exactly, and the others have no idea.
Before you start thinking about the wall structure, you should define your requirements for it:
Should it be as soundproof as possible, as cheap as possible, as thin as possible, as breathable as possible, as thermally insulating as possible, ...? Or a combination of these goals?
From that, you can find the ideal wall structure for you!
- Monolithic 36.5cm (14 inches) Ytong, for example, would not be very soundproof, moderately thermally insulating, rather inexpensive, average thickness, and well breathable
- Monolithic 36.5cm (14 inches) Poroton moderately soundproof, good thermal insulation, somewhat more expensive, etc.
- … and so on.
So the heating system should be an air-to-water heat pump or geothermal with underfloor heating.
Regarding thermal insulation… you say Ytong is moderate and Poroton is good for thermal insulation. I have read something different. So which is it? Is there any report or test available?
But thanks anyway.
face26 schrieb:
BMW: 240HP
Mercedes: 190HP
Audi: 210HP
VW: 170HP
You can’t make general statements like that. It depends on the models.
And which one is more expensive depends more on the region and installer than a general assumption that one is cheaper than the other.
Basically, it’s of course correct to first think about what is particularly important to you.
OT:
With today’s car models, unfortunately, the engines are overstressed… What use is a 1.4L with 170HP? Before, there was a 2.0L with 150–170HP… -> Higher consumption and shorter engine life.
From what I have seen on Benz24, the total cost between Poroton and Ytong is not really different..
PS: Edit: Although I just noticed that Ytong 365 would even be cheaper…
Nordlys schrieb:
BMW 61,000 Euro, Mercedes 62,000, Audi 61,500, VW 45,000. Who has the more economical HP value plus U-value? Monolithic Ytong is simply the cheapest in northern Germany, then screw the 10 Euro more heating costs per month. By the time I’ve earned back the extra cost for all the U-value and KfW-related stuff I’ll be dead.
Good point =)
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