Hello everyone,
We moved into our new house last summer (oh God, that already sounds so long ago). Since then, there has been a lot to do—and there still is. Now, however, the remaining work is increasingly shifting outdoors.
The well has already been drilled. At that spot, I installed a small pit, and the garden shed will be placed on top of it. Now I’ve been thinking about the irrigation system again and realized that it will be difficult to access the pit underground once the garden shed is in place, as I would then be undermining the base slab.
So, I’ve been giving it some thought and reading a lot, but not everything is clear to me yet.
Firstly: before I pour the base slab, I need to run the necessary pipes out of the pit. That means drilling a hole through the pit ring and laying 1 to x PVC pipes (KG pipes) extending 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) beyond the edge of the base slab, so that I can later feed the water line through them when the time comes.
By the way, the garden shed will also house the sub-distribution for the outdoor electrical system. So, I also need to run a cable from the pit through the base slab to the distribution board in the garden shed for the pump. Additionally, I need 2 to 3 PVC pipes from inside where the distribution board is mounted, under the base slab to the outside, for all the electrical wiring on the driveway—such as the gate, lighting, and control cables for the irrigation valves, etc.
Now to the main topic: the automatic irrigation system
In this forum, it seems @rick2018 has good knowledge about this subject. Maybe you could give me some tips as well.
Below is a plan of our property:
Except for the house, none of this has actually been implemented yet. The plants are just planned and may still change. The second terrace on the drawing is currently 10 x 10 meters (33 x 33 feet). It won’t actually be that large; that’s just a placeholder for the approximate future location. However, it definitely won’t be built in the next five years. That brings me to my first point:
1. How do you take that into account now? For example, regarding the second terrace, I would mostly plan the sprinklers as if the terrace will never be built, since it’s still uncertain whether and where exactly it will be placed. What about the trees? If I install the sprinklers now and then plant a tree 1 or 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) away next year, there will be shade along the axis behind the tree. In the first few years, this is probably negligible due to the small trunk diameter, but what happens when the trunk gets thicker?
2. What exactly should be irrigated? Lawn, flower beds, and vegetable garden are clear. I’ve read differing opinions about hedges, especially regarding adaptation to watering. What about trees? They should be able to cope on their own, right? Is it really overkill to install irrigation just for the first and maybe the second year?
3. For my large lawn areas, I’m considering Hunter gear-driven rotors. However, these are said to be rather sensitive to wind. Here, it’s usually windy because we’re on a small hill. But once everything around is planted, there shouldn’t be much wind close to the ground, right? @rick2018, why do you prefer rotators like the MP3000 over gear-driven rotors like the I20, for example?
4. My father-in-law took care of the well. I believe a Grundfos SQ2-55 pump is installed “in the hole.” The borehole depth was about 20 meters (66 feet) and the pump hangs at roughly 15 meters (49 feet) depth. The property slopes upwards by almost one meter (3 feet) to the right, so the pump has to push water up about 16 meters (52 feet). The pump is capable of 54 meters (177 feet) total head. So that leaves about 38 meters (125 feet), which corresponds to roughly 3.8 bar (55 psi) and, unfortunately, only about 2 cubic meters per hour (around 880 gallons per hour).
If I understand correctly, I can only operate two gear-driven I20 rotors with the 4.0 nozzle on one zone, since each requires 0.81 m³/h (about 360 gallons/hr) at 2.5 bar (36 psi) with a 11.9-meter (39 feet) radius (planning uses 10.5 meters). That will mean a lot of zones. Alternatively, I could try to return the pump to the well driller (as it wasn’t used before) and get one with 4 m³/h (about 1760 gallons/hr) or more. The question is whether that would make my well wear out faster (clogging?).
5. Let’s say I keep the existing pump and end up with 30 zones. How would that work in practice? Would each lawn irrigation zone run for 30 minutes? And every 3 days? That would cause problems with my planned robotic mower that will almost always be running over the large area. In the end, I won’t have time to enjoy the yard because either the mower is running or the sprinklers are on.
6. It is recommended to start the design in a corner of the property. So, for example, I start at the top right and place the first sprinkler in front of the hedge. The thing is: the hedge is currently very narrow, but will become 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) wide over time.
7. The sprinklers extend during operation and retract afterwards. How durable are these if someone steps on them? It looks like I will eventually have a “carpet” of pop-up sprinklers. The children should, of course, still be able to play freely.
That’s enough for now. Have a nice rest of the Sunday!
We moved into our new house last summer (oh God, that already sounds so long ago). Since then, there has been a lot to do—and there still is. Now, however, the remaining work is increasingly shifting outdoors.
The well has already been drilled. At that spot, I installed a small pit, and the garden shed will be placed on top of it. Now I’ve been thinking about the irrigation system again and realized that it will be difficult to access the pit underground once the garden shed is in place, as I would then be undermining the base slab.
So, I’ve been giving it some thought and reading a lot, but not everything is clear to me yet.
Firstly: before I pour the base slab, I need to run the necessary pipes out of the pit. That means drilling a hole through the pit ring and laying 1 to x PVC pipes (KG pipes) extending 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) beyond the edge of the base slab, so that I can later feed the water line through them when the time comes.
By the way, the garden shed will also house the sub-distribution for the outdoor electrical system. So, I also need to run a cable from the pit through the base slab to the distribution board in the garden shed for the pump. Additionally, I need 2 to 3 PVC pipes from inside where the distribution board is mounted, under the base slab to the outside, for all the electrical wiring on the driveway—such as the gate, lighting, and control cables for the irrigation valves, etc.
Now to the main topic: the automatic irrigation system
In this forum, it seems @rick2018 has good knowledge about this subject. Maybe you could give me some tips as well.
Below is a plan of our property:
Except for the house, none of this has actually been implemented yet. The plants are just planned and may still change. The second terrace on the drawing is currently 10 x 10 meters (33 x 33 feet). It won’t actually be that large; that’s just a placeholder for the approximate future location. However, it definitely won’t be built in the next five years. That brings me to my first point:
1. How do you take that into account now? For example, regarding the second terrace, I would mostly plan the sprinklers as if the terrace will never be built, since it’s still uncertain whether and where exactly it will be placed. What about the trees? If I install the sprinklers now and then plant a tree 1 or 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) away next year, there will be shade along the axis behind the tree. In the first few years, this is probably negligible due to the small trunk diameter, but what happens when the trunk gets thicker?
2. What exactly should be irrigated? Lawn, flower beds, and vegetable garden are clear. I’ve read differing opinions about hedges, especially regarding adaptation to watering. What about trees? They should be able to cope on their own, right? Is it really overkill to install irrigation just for the first and maybe the second year?
3. For my large lawn areas, I’m considering Hunter gear-driven rotors. However, these are said to be rather sensitive to wind. Here, it’s usually windy because we’re on a small hill. But once everything around is planted, there shouldn’t be much wind close to the ground, right? @rick2018, why do you prefer rotators like the MP3000 over gear-driven rotors like the I20, for example?
4. My father-in-law took care of the well. I believe a Grundfos SQ2-55 pump is installed “in the hole.” The borehole depth was about 20 meters (66 feet) and the pump hangs at roughly 15 meters (49 feet) depth. The property slopes upwards by almost one meter (3 feet) to the right, so the pump has to push water up about 16 meters (52 feet). The pump is capable of 54 meters (177 feet) total head. So that leaves about 38 meters (125 feet), which corresponds to roughly 3.8 bar (55 psi) and, unfortunately, only about 2 cubic meters per hour (around 880 gallons per hour).
If I understand correctly, I can only operate two gear-driven I20 rotors with the 4.0 nozzle on one zone, since each requires 0.81 m³/h (about 360 gallons/hr) at 2.5 bar (36 psi) with a 11.9-meter (39 feet) radius (planning uses 10.5 meters). That will mean a lot of zones. Alternatively, I could try to return the pump to the well driller (as it wasn’t used before) and get one with 4 m³/h (about 1760 gallons/hr) or more. The question is whether that would make my well wear out faster (clogging?).
5. Let’s say I keep the existing pump and end up with 30 zones. How would that work in practice? Would each lawn irrigation zone run for 30 minutes? And every 3 days? That would cause problems with my planned robotic mower that will almost always be running over the large area. In the end, I won’t have time to enjoy the yard because either the mower is running or the sprinklers are on.
6. It is recommended to start the design in a corner of the property. So, for example, I start at the top right and place the first sprinkler in front of the hedge. The thing is: the hedge is currently very narrow, but will become 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) wide over time.
7. The sprinklers extend during operation and retract afterwards. How durable are these if someone steps on them? It looks like I will eventually have a “carpet” of pop-up sprinklers. The children should, of course, still be able to play freely.
That’s enough for now. Have a nice rest of the Sunday!
Hello Denz,
What type of soil do you have? Grass typically requires about 15-20 liters per week during dry periods. That gets you to around 42m³ (about 11,100 gallons) per week. Yes, that is a lot, but in practice, it will be less due to rainfall, dew, and so on. It also depends on your expectations. Do you plan to fertilize and aerate regularly, or do you just want it to stay “green”? You have a large plot of land. At least you can draw water from a well and not from the mains. There is a reason why we install a 76m³ (about 20,000 gallons) cistern. But your rough calculation is about right.
What type of soil do you have? Grass typically requires about 15-20 liters per week during dry periods. That gets you to around 42m³ (about 11,100 gallons) per week. Yes, that is a lot, but in practice, it will be less due to rainfall, dew, and so on. It also depends on your expectations. Do you plan to fertilize and aerate regularly, or do you just want it to stay “green”? You have a large plot of land. At least you can draw water from a well and not from the mains. There is a reason why we install a 76m³ (about 20,000 gallons) cistern. But your rough calculation is about right.
Here is my current status:
I have noted the expected flow rates at each sprinkler position.
Additionally, I have marked the main pipes in light green and numbered the valve box locations from 1 to 4.
What I am still unsure about is the bottom right area near the shrub group. The sprinklers there basically cover the shrubs as well. Is that okay? Or should I water the shrubs separately and redesign the sprinkler at the corner of the house?
I have grouped the zones (circuits) in a way that makes sense to me:
I have a maximum flow of 27.6 liters per minute (l/min) (= 1.66 cubic meters per hour (m³/h)) in one zone.
According to the performance curves, I understand that I have 2 m³/h available at a head of 54 meters. My pump is set at 15 meters, and the height difference on the property is 1 meter – so a total of 16 meters. That leaves 38 meters. So 3.8 bar. I need 2.8 bar at the sprinklers. That leaves a 1 bar buffer for pipe losses.
(If I select "Input" under "Operating Point" in the top right and enter 1.7 m³/h for Q and 16 m for H, the diagram even shows a flow rate of 2.7 m³/h at 40.4 meters.)
For DN32 pipe, a flow of 2 m³/h results in about 0.25 bar pressure loss over 50 meters. T-joints cause 0.01 bar and 90° elbows 0.002 bar. The Hunter valve has a pressure loss of 0.1 bar. So the main pipe pressure loss is a maximum of 0.4 bar. If I also use DN32 for the further distribution, I should be fine with the remaining 0.6 bar buffer.
Regarding the irrigation controller:
I have planned 16 zones, including 3 drip irrigation zones. I have planned valve boxes with a total of 20 valves to allow some buffer for possible future expansion.
Hunter works with stations, where one station equals one valve, if I understand correctly.
So I would need, for example, the "Hunter Wi-Fi Controller PRO-HC-2401 ie." It can control 24 stations and costs around €730.
Plus a rain sensor for around €80. So about €810 total.
For control via KNX, I need a relay actuator for about €350, a 24 VAC transformer for about €50, and a KNX rain sensor for about €110, totaling €510.
If I assume that I manage the logic through Edomi, I save about €300 by using KNX – or have I missed something here?
However, I would have the advantage of opening two zones simultaneously. To me, that makes sense since I have very small zones, for example, for hedges. I could run those together. Or if I manually water something using one of the drip irrigation zones, a small additional zone could run simultaneously to avoid the pump constantly turning on and off. (For that, I would then need a pressure sensor.)
Regards, denz
I have noted the expected flow rates at each sprinkler position.
Additionally, I have marked the main pipes in light green and numbered the valve box locations from 1 to 4.
What I am still unsure about is the bottom right area near the shrub group. The sprinklers there basically cover the shrubs as well. Is that okay? Or should I water the shrubs separately and redesign the sprinkler at the corner of the house?
I have grouped the zones (circuits) in a way that makes sense to me:
I have a maximum flow of 27.6 liters per minute (l/min) (= 1.66 cubic meters per hour (m³/h)) in one zone.
According to the performance curves, I understand that I have 2 m³/h available at a head of 54 meters. My pump is set at 15 meters, and the height difference on the property is 1 meter – so a total of 16 meters. That leaves 38 meters. So 3.8 bar. I need 2.8 bar at the sprinklers. That leaves a 1 bar buffer for pipe losses.
(If I select "Input" under "Operating Point" in the top right and enter 1.7 m³/h for Q and 16 m for H, the diagram even shows a flow rate of 2.7 m³/h at 40.4 meters.)
For DN32 pipe, a flow of 2 m³/h results in about 0.25 bar pressure loss over 50 meters. T-joints cause 0.01 bar and 90° elbows 0.002 bar. The Hunter valve has a pressure loss of 0.1 bar. So the main pipe pressure loss is a maximum of 0.4 bar. If I also use DN32 for the further distribution, I should be fine with the remaining 0.6 bar buffer.
Regarding the irrigation controller:
I have planned 16 zones, including 3 drip irrigation zones. I have planned valve boxes with a total of 20 valves to allow some buffer for possible future expansion.
Hunter works with stations, where one station equals one valve, if I understand correctly.
So I would need, for example, the "Hunter Wi-Fi Controller PRO-HC-2401 ie." It can control 24 stations and costs around €730.
Plus a rain sensor for around €80. So about €810 total.
For control via KNX, I need a relay actuator for about €350, a 24 VAC transformer for about €50, and a KNX rain sensor for about €110, totaling €510.
If I assume that I manage the logic through Edomi, I save about €300 by using KNX – or have I missed something here?
However, I would have the advantage of opening two zones simultaneously. To me, that makes sense since I have very small zones, for example, for hedges. I could run those together. Or if I manually water something using one of the drip irrigation zones, a small additional zone could run simultaneously to avoid the pump constantly turning on and off. (For that, I would then need a pressure sensor.)
Regards, denz
The planning looks good. A garden changes over time, and sprinklers are not as precise as lasers. You have a few small holes in the cover, but adjusting the sprinklers should compensate for that.
I would leave the hedges as they are, as long as they are not particularly sensitive plants.
It's also good that you planned for a reserve. In the worst case, you could connect watering valves together. You only use one at a time, but given your layout, that probably isn’t practical.
Do you need the controller to be an outdoor version?
Why use a rain sensor? You already have a weather station with KNX, right?
The last Hydrawise systems I installed didn’t include a rain sensor. Weather data from local weather stations (some private) is sufficient. Adjustments based on temperature, wind, forecasts, etc., work very well.
If you have two small zones, you can run them simultaneously. Connecting the watering valves together won’t work. Once you connect a hose there, the pressure will drop, and volume will be insufficient. The sprinklers will either retract partially or at least stop rotating.
In your case, KNX is more cost-effective (excluding the rest of the infrastructure). However, it is less convenient when it comes to quick adjustments. The app and website are easy to use. If you are away for a longer time, it must also be operable by other people in the house. Although automation is the goal, I’m not sure if edomi offers good irrigation modules or if you can cover all scenarios with custom programming. Ultimately, it’s a question of price, interest in tinkering, and usefulness. The KNX option is easier to integrate with the robotic mower.
I know both options. We are also going with KNX. For those wanting a “simple” solution, I would recommend Hydrawise.
I would leave the hedges as they are, as long as they are not particularly sensitive plants.
It's also good that you planned for a reserve. In the worst case, you could connect watering valves together. You only use one at a time, but given your layout, that probably isn’t practical.
Do you need the controller to be an outdoor version?
Why use a rain sensor? You already have a weather station with KNX, right?
The last Hydrawise systems I installed didn’t include a rain sensor. Weather data from local weather stations (some private) is sufficient. Adjustments based on temperature, wind, forecasts, etc., work very well.
If you have two small zones, you can run them simultaneously. Connecting the watering valves together won’t work. Once you connect a hose there, the pressure will drop, and volume will be insufficient. The sprinklers will either retract partially or at least stop rotating.
In your case, KNX is more cost-effective (excluding the rest of the infrastructure). However, it is less convenient when it comes to quick adjustments. The app and website are easy to use. If you are away for a longer time, it must also be operable by other people in the house. Although automation is the goal, I’m not sure if edomi offers good irrigation modules or if you can cover all scenarios with custom programming. Ultimately, it’s a question of price, interest in tinkering, and usefulness. The KNX option is easier to integrate with the robotic mower.
I know both options. We are also going with KNX. For those wanting a “simple” solution, I would recommend Hydrawise.
Assuming the 2m³ (2.6 yd³) at 54m (177 ft) delivery height is correct, meaning in my case (after a 16m (52 ft) delivery height/well depth) there is still 3.8 bar (55 psi) pressure available, I would now order the PE pipe for the main lines—so 32mm (1") PE pipe. After the valve boxes, 1/2" (15mm) pipe should be sufficient, right? 16 bar (232 psi) pressure rating?
Regarding the valves: Ready-made valve boxes are available from various suppliers. So far, I have seen them mostly with the PGV valve. But wouldn’t the PGV JAR Top be a better choice?
PS: I noticed that the water outlets don’t actually need a valve installed beforehand, do they?
Regarding the valves: Ready-made valve boxes are available from various suppliers. So far, I have seen them mostly with the PGV valve. But wouldn’t the PGV JAR Top be a better choice?
PS: I noticed that the water outlets don’t actually need a valve installed beforehand, do they?
1/2" after the valve is theoretically sufficient if the circuit is not too large. I would rather go with 1". Only one pipe type, one size of fittings... of course, a bit more expensive. The standard PVG valves are sufficient. The PVG Jar Top valves are more maintenance-friendly but also more expensive. I prefer to replace the entire valve if it breaks after 5-10 years...