Hello everyone,
We moved into our new house last summer (oh God, that already sounds so long ago). Since then, there has been a lot to do—and there still is. Now, however, the remaining work is increasingly shifting outdoors.
The well has already been drilled. At that spot, I installed a small pit, and the garden shed will be placed on top of it. Now I’ve been thinking about the irrigation system again and realized that it will be difficult to access the pit underground once the garden shed is in place, as I would then be undermining the base slab.
So, I’ve been giving it some thought and reading a lot, but not everything is clear to me yet.
Firstly: before I pour the base slab, I need to run the necessary pipes out of the pit. That means drilling a hole through the pit ring and laying 1 to x PVC pipes (KG pipes) extending 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) beyond the edge of the base slab, so that I can later feed the water line through them when the time comes.
By the way, the garden shed will also house the sub-distribution for the outdoor electrical system. So, I also need to run a cable from the pit through the base slab to the distribution board in the garden shed for the pump. Additionally, I need 2 to 3 PVC pipes from inside where the distribution board is mounted, under the base slab to the outside, for all the electrical wiring on the driveway—such as the gate, lighting, and control cables for the irrigation valves, etc.
Now to the main topic: the automatic irrigation system
In this forum, it seems @rick2018 has good knowledge about this subject. Maybe you could give me some tips as well.
Below is a plan of our property:
Except for the house, none of this has actually been implemented yet. The plants are just planned and may still change. The second terrace on the drawing is currently 10 x 10 meters (33 x 33 feet). It won’t actually be that large; that’s just a placeholder for the approximate future location. However, it definitely won’t be built in the next five years. That brings me to my first point:
1. How do you take that into account now? For example, regarding the second terrace, I would mostly plan the sprinklers as if the terrace will never be built, since it’s still uncertain whether and where exactly it will be placed. What about the trees? If I install the sprinklers now and then plant a tree 1 or 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) away next year, there will be shade along the axis behind the tree. In the first few years, this is probably negligible due to the small trunk diameter, but what happens when the trunk gets thicker?
2. What exactly should be irrigated? Lawn, flower beds, and vegetable garden are clear. I’ve read differing opinions about hedges, especially regarding adaptation to watering. What about trees? They should be able to cope on their own, right? Is it really overkill to install irrigation just for the first and maybe the second year?
3. For my large lawn areas, I’m considering Hunter gear-driven rotors. However, these are said to be rather sensitive to wind. Here, it’s usually windy because we’re on a small hill. But once everything around is planted, there shouldn’t be much wind close to the ground, right? @rick2018, why do you prefer rotators like the MP3000 over gear-driven rotors like the I20, for example?
4. My father-in-law took care of the well. I believe a Grundfos SQ2-55 pump is installed “in the hole.” The borehole depth was about 20 meters (66 feet) and the pump hangs at roughly 15 meters (49 feet) depth. The property slopes upwards by almost one meter (3 feet) to the right, so the pump has to push water up about 16 meters (52 feet). The pump is capable of 54 meters (177 feet) total head. So that leaves about 38 meters (125 feet), which corresponds to roughly 3.8 bar (55 psi) and, unfortunately, only about 2 cubic meters per hour (around 880 gallons per hour).
If I understand correctly, I can only operate two gear-driven I20 rotors with the 4.0 nozzle on one zone, since each requires 0.81 m³/h (about 360 gallons/hr) at 2.5 bar (36 psi) with a 11.9-meter (39 feet) radius (planning uses 10.5 meters). That will mean a lot of zones. Alternatively, I could try to return the pump to the well driller (as it wasn’t used before) and get one with 4 m³/h (about 1760 gallons/hr) or more. The question is whether that would make my well wear out faster (clogging?).
5. Let’s say I keep the existing pump and end up with 30 zones. How would that work in practice? Would each lawn irrigation zone run for 30 minutes? And every 3 days? That would cause problems with my planned robotic mower that will almost always be running over the large area. In the end, I won’t have time to enjoy the yard because either the mower is running or the sprinklers are on.
6. It is recommended to start the design in a corner of the property. So, for example, I start at the top right and place the first sprinkler in front of the hedge. The thing is: the hedge is currently very narrow, but will become 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) wide over time.
7. The sprinklers extend during operation and retract afterwards. How durable are these if someone steps on them? It looks like I will eventually have a “carpet” of pop-up sprinklers. The children should, of course, still be able to play freely.
That’s enough for now. Have a nice rest of the Sunday!
We moved into our new house last summer (oh God, that already sounds so long ago). Since then, there has been a lot to do—and there still is. Now, however, the remaining work is increasingly shifting outdoors.
The well has already been drilled. At that spot, I installed a small pit, and the garden shed will be placed on top of it. Now I’ve been thinking about the irrigation system again and realized that it will be difficult to access the pit underground once the garden shed is in place, as I would then be undermining the base slab.
So, I’ve been giving it some thought and reading a lot, but not everything is clear to me yet.
Firstly: before I pour the base slab, I need to run the necessary pipes out of the pit. That means drilling a hole through the pit ring and laying 1 to x PVC pipes (KG pipes) extending 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) beyond the edge of the base slab, so that I can later feed the water line through them when the time comes.
By the way, the garden shed will also house the sub-distribution for the outdoor electrical system. So, I also need to run a cable from the pit through the base slab to the distribution board in the garden shed for the pump. Additionally, I need 2 to 3 PVC pipes from inside where the distribution board is mounted, under the base slab to the outside, for all the electrical wiring on the driveway—such as the gate, lighting, and control cables for the irrigation valves, etc.
Now to the main topic: the automatic irrigation system
In this forum, it seems @rick2018 has good knowledge about this subject. Maybe you could give me some tips as well.
Below is a plan of our property:
Except for the house, none of this has actually been implemented yet. The plants are just planned and may still change. The second terrace on the drawing is currently 10 x 10 meters (33 x 33 feet). It won’t actually be that large; that’s just a placeholder for the approximate future location. However, it definitely won’t be built in the next five years. That brings me to my first point:
1. How do you take that into account now? For example, regarding the second terrace, I would mostly plan the sprinklers as if the terrace will never be built, since it’s still uncertain whether and where exactly it will be placed. What about the trees? If I install the sprinklers now and then plant a tree 1 or 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) away next year, there will be shade along the axis behind the tree. In the first few years, this is probably negligible due to the small trunk diameter, but what happens when the trunk gets thicker?
2. What exactly should be irrigated? Lawn, flower beds, and vegetable garden are clear. I’ve read differing opinions about hedges, especially regarding adaptation to watering. What about trees? They should be able to cope on their own, right? Is it really overkill to install irrigation just for the first and maybe the second year?
3. For my large lawn areas, I’m considering Hunter gear-driven rotors. However, these are said to be rather sensitive to wind. Here, it’s usually windy because we’re on a small hill. But once everything around is planted, there shouldn’t be much wind close to the ground, right? @rick2018, why do you prefer rotators like the MP3000 over gear-driven rotors like the I20, for example?
4. My father-in-law took care of the well. I believe a Grundfos SQ2-55 pump is installed “in the hole.” The borehole depth was about 20 meters (66 feet) and the pump hangs at roughly 15 meters (49 feet) depth. The property slopes upwards by almost one meter (3 feet) to the right, so the pump has to push water up about 16 meters (52 feet). The pump is capable of 54 meters (177 feet) total head. So that leaves about 38 meters (125 feet), which corresponds to roughly 3.8 bar (55 psi) and, unfortunately, only about 2 cubic meters per hour (around 880 gallons per hour).
If I understand correctly, I can only operate two gear-driven I20 rotors with the 4.0 nozzle on one zone, since each requires 0.81 m³/h (about 360 gallons/hr) at 2.5 bar (36 psi) with a 11.9-meter (39 feet) radius (planning uses 10.5 meters). That will mean a lot of zones. Alternatively, I could try to return the pump to the well driller (as it wasn’t used before) and get one with 4 m³/h (about 1760 gallons/hr) or more. The question is whether that would make my well wear out faster (clogging?).
5. Let’s say I keep the existing pump and end up with 30 zones. How would that work in practice? Would each lawn irrigation zone run for 30 minutes? And every 3 days? That would cause problems with my planned robotic mower that will almost always be running over the large area. In the end, I won’t have time to enjoy the yard because either the mower is running or the sprinklers are on.
6. It is recommended to start the design in a corner of the property. So, for example, I start at the top right and place the first sprinkler in front of the hedge. The thing is: the hedge is currently very narrow, but will become 1 to 2 meters (3 to 6.5 feet) wide over time.
7. The sprinklers extend during operation and retract afterwards. How durable are these if someone steps on them? It looks like I will eventually have a “carpet” of pop-up sprinklers. The children should, of course, still be able to play freely.
That’s enough for now. Have a nice rest of the Sunday!
H
Hausbaufaehig13 Sep 2022 09:29One more question for the group: In my circle of acquaintances, people have strongly advised against automatic irrigation systems because apparently something always breaks, nozzles get clogged, valves stick, hoses leak or get chewed on, and you end up spending more time on maintenance than you save. However, their experience is from more than 10 years ago, and they probably used Gardena products. What has been your experience? I don't mind cleaning nozzles occasionally or replacing parts if needed, but it shouldn’t get out of hand 😉
Marvinius schrieb:
At least the irrigation was sufficient for our eucalyptus to grow nearly 5m (16 feet) tall in 5 years 🙂 You’re lucky, I keep killing my eucalyptus... this is already the third attempt and it’s dying again 🙁
A well-designed automatic irrigation system is excellent and makes efficient and sensible watering possible. We have several properties with automatic irrigation systems in the family. And we are talking about larger gardens. In over 10 years, we have only replaced two valves and one sprinkler…
A car also needs maintenance…
I will reply to your other questions separately. I am currently on the move.
A car also needs maintenance…
I will reply to your other questions separately. I am currently on the move.
H
Hausbaufaehig13 Sep 2022 12:19Damn, totally forgot: The cistern is planned in the "courtyard" between the garage and the utility room, it couldn’t be done differently because of the slope and the position relative to the street. Rainwater is not allowed to drain into the sewer system here; it must all go into the cistern or infiltrate the ground.
A plumbing company can connect the pipes but usually doesn’t have expertise in irrigation.
You need a deep well pump with a pressure switch to provide adequate pressure (around 6 bar) and sufficient flow rate (approximately 5000–6000 l/h (1320–1585 US gallons per hour)).
It’s better not to go too high. In the worst case, you can reduce the pressure. However, at 6 bar, this is generally not necessary. The valves won’t last if pressure is higher, but they can definitely handle 6 bar.
You can also manage the level monitoring via your KNX system and control refilling with logic and a solenoid valve. This avoids simple refilling systems which often cause problems or get stuck.
You only need a Hydrawise controller. Run all control cables to the correct location—you can position the controller wherever you want. It requires Wi-Fi, power, and all control lines.
Use solenoid valves from Hunter or Rainbird (1 inch). How you control them doesn’t matter to the manufacturers. If using KNX, you will also need a power supply. Hydrawise includes everything integrated.
Forget about surge protection. Connect control lines directly to the Hydrawise controller.
Valve boxes should be placed close to the irrigation zones. The supply line can be DN32 (32mm) but DN40 (40mm) significantly reduces pressure loss. How long is the property?
The pool house doesn’t look very large. You will need space for pool equipment and other installations. Simply bury the valve boxes—it also saves drilling through walls.
Laying conduit and cables across the property is not a big effort, especially since the land is still vacant. Please only install one controller.
From the cistern pump, branch off once forward and once backward. Besides the irrigation zones, consider adding 1-2 water outlets in the garden, but that can be planned in more detail later.
You need a deep well pump with a pressure switch to provide adequate pressure (around 6 bar) and sufficient flow rate (approximately 5000–6000 l/h (1320–1585 US gallons per hour)).
It’s better not to go too high. In the worst case, you can reduce the pressure. However, at 6 bar, this is generally not necessary. The valves won’t last if pressure is higher, but they can definitely handle 6 bar.
You can also manage the level monitoring via your KNX system and control refilling with logic and a solenoid valve. This avoids simple refilling systems which often cause problems or get stuck.
You only need a Hydrawise controller. Run all control cables to the correct location—you can position the controller wherever you want. It requires Wi-Fi, power, and all control lines.
Use solenoid valves from Hunter or Rainbird (1 inch). How you control them doesn’t matter to the manufacturers. If using KNX, you will also need a power supply. Hydrawise includes everything integrated.
Forget about surge protection. Connect control lines directly to the Hydrawise controller.
Valve boxes should be placed close to the irrigation zones. The supply line can be DN32 (32mm) but DN40 (40mm) significantly reduces pressure loss. How long is the property?
The pool house doesn’t look very large. You will need space for pool equipment and other installations. Simply bury the valve boxes—it also saves drilling through walls.
Laying conduit and cables across the property is not a big effort, especially since the land is still vacant. Please only install one controller.
From the cistern pump, branch off once forward and once backward. Besides the irrigation zones, consider adding 1-2 water outlets in the garden, but that can be planned in more detail later.
H
Hausbaufaehig13 Sep 2022 20:10Many thanks in advance for the help!
Thanks, I will request the pump like this from the plumber!
Alright, not a bad idea; do you have a suggestion for the appropriate KNX sensors (float switch? pressure sensor)? If not, I’ll research it myself, I’m certainly not the first to implement something like this.
The property measures about 65 m x 12.5 m (the “hose™”), and it’s roughly 35 m from the cistern to the garden house.
Regarding the control cables: I’m thinking of placing the Hydrawise unit in the utility room or pool house and running the control cables (under the house) to boxes in the north and south parts of the property. I assume this makes more sense than using just one box and running water lines across half the property…
Okay, will do. I will also try to place the boxes as close to the garden house/utility room as possible.
Yes, it will be only about 5 m² (54 sq ft). The instantaneous water heater for the outdoor shower has to go in there as well, and space for a pool robot would be nice.
Currently, we are planning one fresh water tap (frost-proof outdoor faucet) each for the terrace, balcony, house entrance, and pool house (a backflow preventer is planned). If I understood the plumber correctly, the cistern water will first enter the house via the utility room/floor slab and then be accessible again via separate outdoor taps on the external walls (similar to fresh water). The advantage might be frost protection?
Question about water outlets: do Hunter or Rain Bird also have these, or do we have to switch back to Gardena? I can only find quick coupling valves with little information. Would you prefer outlets or water faucets?
Thanks again and best regards,
Hausbaufaehig
rick2018 schrieb:
A plumbing company can connect the pipes but usually has no expertise with irrigation systems. You need a deep well pump with a pressure switch to ensure proper pressure (around 6 bar (87 psi)) and sufficient flow (about 5000-6000 l/h (1320-1585 US gallons/hour)).
Don’t go too high on pressure. At worst, you can reduce the pressure later. At 6 bar (87 psi), it’s usually not necessary. Your valves won’t handle higher pressure anyway, but they can handle 6 bar (87 psi)…
Thanks, I will request the pump like this from the plumber!
rick2018 schrieb:
You can monitor the water level via your KNX system and control refilling using logic and a solenoid valve. This avoids simple refilling setups that often cause problems or get stuck.
Alright, not a bad idea; do you have a suggestion for the appropriate KNX sensors (float switch? pressure sensor)? If not, I’ll research it myself, I’m certainly not the first to implement something like this.
rick2018 schrieb:
How long is the property?
You only need a Hydrawise controller. Run all control cables to the right locations. You can place it wherever you want. You need Wi-Fi, power, and all control lines there.
Use solenoid valves from Hunter or Rain Bird (1 inch). The way you wire them does not matter to them. If you use KNX, you’ll need a power supply. Hydrawise has everything included.
The property measures about 65 m x 12.5 m (the “hose™”), and it’s roughly 35 m from the cistern to the garden house.
Regarding the control cables: I’m thinking of placing the Hydrawise unit in the utility room or pool house and running the control cables (under the house) to boxes in the north and south parts of the property. I assume this makes more sense than using just one box and running water lines across half the property…
rick2018 schrieb:
Forget surge protection. Run control cables directly to the Hydrawise controller. Valve boxes should be near the irrigation zones. The supply line can be DN32 (approx. 32 mm (1.25 inches)) but DN40 (approx. 40 mm (1.5 inches)) reduces line losses significantly.
Okay, will do. I will also try to place the boxes as close to the garden house/utility room as possible.
rick2018 schrieb:
The pool house doesn’t look very big. You will need space for pool equipment and other things. Just bury the valve boxes. It also saves on making openings.
Yes, it will be only about 5 m² (54 sq ft). The instantaneous water heater for the outdoor shower has to go in there as well, and space for a pool robot would be nice.
rick2018 schrieb:
Running conduits and cables across the property is not a big effort since the property is still empty. Please only use one controller. Branch the cistern pump line once forward and once backward. Besides the irrigation circuits, think about installing 1-2 water outlets in the garden, but that’s more for detailed planning later.
Currently, we are planning one fresh water tap (frost-proof outdoor faucet) each for the terrace, balcony, house entrance, and pool house (a backflow preventer is planned). If I understood the plumber correctly, the cistern water will first enter the house via the utility room/floor slab and then be accessible again via separate outdoor taps on the external walls (similar to fresh water). The advantage might be frost protection?
Question about water outlets: do Hunter or Rain Bird also have these, or do we have to switch back to Gardena? I can only find quick coupling valves with little information. Would you prefer outlets or water faucets?
Thanks again and best regards,
Hausbaufaehig
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