ᐅ Heating with ice, ice-based heating systems for single-family homes, user experiences
Created on: 28 Aug 2013 20:09
S
stefanh
Hello everyone,
I am interested in using ice heating as a source for my heat exchanger in a planned single-family house with approximately 200 m² (2,150 sq ft) of living space. Although I have found many videos and articles explaining the principle, there are hardly any real experience reports.
I am unsure whether the investment costs, installation costs (excavation work, delivery, crane, etc.), and maintenance costs make the ice storage source worthwhile compared to geothermal energy (deep drilling).
As a layperson, I see the following advantages compared to geothermal use with deep drilling:
But also disadvantages:
Has anyone built with this heating system and can share their experiences?
And more generally – what do you think of this heating system?
Thank you and best regards,
Stefan
I am interested in using ice heating as a source for my heat exchanger in a planned single-family house with approximately 200 m² (2,150 sq ft) of living space. Although I have found many videos and articles explaining the principle, there are hardly any real experience reports.
I am unsure whether the investment costs, installation costs (excavation work, delivery, crane, etc.), and maintenance costs make the ice storage source worthwhile compared to geothermal energy (deep drilling).
As a layperson, I see the following advantages compared to geothermal use with deep drilling:
- No permit required for geothermal use (building permit / planning permission)
- No soil survey necessary
- No expensive deep drilling needed
But also disadvantages:
- Additional costs for a solar system on the roof to “charge” the ice storage
- Required space on the building plot – possibly limiting the buildable area
Has anyone built with this heating system and can share their experiences?
And more generally – what do you think of this heating system?
Thank you and best regards,
Stefan
nordanney schrieb:
What kind of soil surveys and test drilling are needed for deep drilling? Usually, there are maps showing the yield levels in your area—at least that’s the case for our building project—so you shouldn’t incur additional costs. We are paying (for a more powerful heat pump with about 10kW) roughly €8,500 (drilling 2x80m (260 feet)) including everything like probes, trenches, etc. You can buy the heat pump directly with an integrated hot water tank, so an external storage tank (why a heating water storage tank?? – isn’t there enough storage in the house with the underfloor heating?) is unnecessary. Some friends of mine who built on the other side of the village needed a geologist to carry out test drilling with a soil report. That’s partly because no one in this village has used geothermal heating yet. But if such information already exists, I’ll inquire. Thanks for the tip!
nordanney schrieb:
A practical solution: just get some quotes and then compare. I have a feeling you will move away from the ice heating (the ice is really just an additional storage medium, right?). I’d be interested in hearing about the results. That’s exactly what I’ll do. I was just hoping to get some firsthand reports on how the heating system performs, what issues, repairs, or maintenance occurred. I can’t seem to find anyone who can show me the system in operation. But as you already said, after the technical building services and calculations are done, I will request offers and also ask the companies if they have reference buildings or customers willing to share their experiences.
Hello,
An ice storage system is the best and most efficient form of solar thermal energy use. This cannot be said of the common, standard solar thermal systems. Here, every delivered watt-hour is actually utilized!
It takes advantage of the heat of crystallization effect. However, this only works if the solar thermal system ensures complete thawing. It fails if the solar thermal system does not guarantee full thawing.
Additionally, for system design, the actual energy extraction as well as the performance requirements for heating and domestic hot water must be known, as is the case with every source dimensioning!
Only when the basic data is available can the investment costs be properly evaluated.
Until then, it’s like looking into a very cloudy crystal ball.
Best regards.
stefanh schrieb:Probably compared to deep drilling. Not sure compared to a trench collector with own labor.
....
I am unsure whether the initial costs, installation expenses (excavation work, delivery, crane, etc.), and maintenance costs make the ice storage source worthwhile compared to the geothermal source (deep drilling).
An ice storage system is the best and most efficient form of solar thermal energy use. This cannot be said of the common, standard solar thermal systems. Here, every delivered watt-hour is actually utilized!
It takes advantage of the heat of crystallization effect. However, this only works if the solar thermal system ensures complete thawing. It fails if the solar thermal system does not guarantee full thawing.
Additionally, for system design, the actual energy extraction as well as the performance requirements for heating and domestic hot water must be known, as is the case with every source dimensioning!
Only when the basic data is available can the investment costs be properly evaluated.
Until then, it’s like looking into a very cloudy crystal ball.
Best regards.
S
Scootaholic8 Dec 2016 09:06I’m bringing this topic up again.
Is there any update on the decision?
I’m facing a similar choice.
We are not allowed to use oil or gas. An air-to-water heat pump is not an option for us. Our plot size probably isn’t sufficient for a ground-source heat pump (which would have been my preferred option with a slinky loop installation). A borehole system is not feasible for us.
What alternatives are left?!? : Pellet heating or an ice storage system.
The initial investment costs for these options don’t differ that much.
Each has its pros and cons, but I personally find it more energy-efficient and “ethical” (not sure if that’s the right word here) to avoid burning fuel altogether.
Now my question to you: Could you possibly help me with the decision-making process? Maybe I’ve overlooked something in my considerations. Does anyone have experience? Just share your opinions.
I would really appreciate it.
Is there any update on the decision?
I’m facing a similar choice.
We are not allowed to use oil or gas. An air-to-water heat pump is not an option for us. Our plot size probably isn’t sufficient for a ground-source heat pump (which would have been my preferred option with a slinky loop installation). A borehole system is not feasible for us.
What alternatives are left?!? : Pellet heating or an ice storage system.
The initial investment costs for these options don’t differ that much.
Each has its pros and cons, but I personally find it more energy-efficient and “ethical” (not sure if that’s the right word here) to avoid burning fuel altogether.
Now my question to you: Could you possibly help me with the decision-making process? Maybe I’ve overlooked something in my considerations. Does anyone have experience? Just share your opinions.
I would really appreciate it.
@Scootaholic Morally, a heat pump only makes sense if the electricity used to operate it is generated 100% from renewable sources. In that case, it is a very climate-friendly option. Have you ever considered producing the electricity yourself? This way, a level of self-sufficiency of almost 85% can be achieved.
Hello,
I’m sharing my experience as a long-term user of an ice storage heat pump system since 2014.
My house has about 240 sqm (2,583 sq ft) of heated living space, and I am very impressed. So far, the system is performing even better than expected.
What convinced me to choose this heating system was that, weighing all pros and cons, it really only has one drawback: it is somewhat more expensive.
My initial costs back then were just under 30,000 Euros.
In return, the energy consumption is very low. On average, the heat pump uses about 2,500 kWh of electricity per year, which translates to roughly 40 - 45 Euros per month, considering this is a KfW 40 standard house with underfloor heating.
An additional benefit is that the system can also provide cooling during summer, although this is limited. It only cools the air without dehumidifying it, unlike a car air conditioning system.
The storage tank also heats up fairly quickly, which means the cooling effect doesn’t last long. So you need to use the cooling sparingly and avoid keeping the patio door open constantly, which can be challenging with children in the summer.
Another point is that the system has run completely maintenance-free so far.
Charging and discharging the storage tank works without any user intervention. On mild winter days, it starts storing heat in the tank until about 10 degrees Celsius (50°F) is reached again, then it stops.
However, at the beginning, I had significant issues with the seals. Almost all of them failed due to temperature fluctuations in the system.
This was quite frustrating, no denying that.
But once all the seals were replaced with ones that can actually withstand these conditions, the problems stopped.
Last year, I completely drained and refilled the water because, as usual with water, it had started to smell stale.
That is not a required maintenance task, I did it voluntarily.
In conclusion, despite the initial issues, I would choose this heating system again anytime because it operates fully autonomously. You don’t even need a smart home control system, because with this low consumption, it wouldn’t improve efficiency much anyway.
Best regards
I’m sharing my experience as a long-term user of an ice storage heat pump system since 2014.
My house has about 240 sqm (2,583 sq ft) of heated living space, and I am very impressed. So far, the system is performing even better than expected.
What convinced me to choose this heating system was that, weighing all pros and cons, it really only has one drawback: it is somewhat more expensive.
My initial costs back then were just under 30,000 Euros.
In return, the energy consumption is very low. On average, the heat pump uses about 2,500 kWh of electricity per year, which translates to roughly 40 - 45 Euros per month, considering this is a KfW 40 standard house with underfloor heating.
An additional benefit is that the system can also provide cooling during summer, although this is limited. It only cools the air without dehumidifying it, unlike a car air conditioning system.
The storage tank also heats up fairly quickly, which means the cooling effect doesn’t last long. So you need to use the cooling sparingly and avoid keeping the patio door open constantly, which can be challenging with children in the summer.
Another point is that the system has run completely maintenance-free so far.
Charging and discharging the storage tank works without any user intervention. On mild winter days, it starts storing heat in the tank until about 10 degrees Celsius (50°F) is reached again, then it stops.
However, at the beginning, I had significant issues with the seals. Almost all of them failed due to temperature fluctuations in the system.
This was quite frustrating, no denying that.
But once all the seals were replaced with ones that can actually withstand these conditions, the problems stopped.
Last year, I completely drained and refilled the water because, as usual with water, it had started to smell stale.
That is not a required maintenance task, I did it voluntarily.
In conclusion, despite the initial issues, I would choose this heating system again anytime because it operates fully autonomously. You don’t even need a smart home control system, because with this low consumption, it wouldn’t improve efficiency much anyway.
Best regards
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