ᐅ Experiences with Building a House Using an Architect on a Fixed-Price Contract?
Created on: 2 Dec 2018 20:01
J
jawknee
Hello everyone,
I originally planned to build with a general contractor (GC), mainly because of the financial security provided by a fixed price. When working with an architect, I was always worried about unpredictable costs or that the final costs might end up being significantly higher.
Now, through acquaintances, I was recommended a local architect who also offers a fixed price like a GC (for the complete turnkey house). The only difference is, as is typical with architects, that it’s not "all in one hand" but rather separate contracts are signed with the trades, which the architect still handles the tendering process for and coordinates later. His profit would essentially be his fixed fee minus the negotiated costs with the trades.
In the first meeting, everything seemed very professional and honest, and I had a good feeling about it. The price was also in a normal range between the lower-cost GCs and the (seemingly overpriced) GCs. He even includes some items that many GCs put under additional construction costs, such as the foundation slab, removal of earth excavation, etc. The remaining additional costs included in the fixed price were roughly estimated.
That’s why I would like to build with the architect and I have already started an initial exchange regarding the floor plan.
However, I wanted to ask if anyone has experience with this model and if there’s anything I should still watch out for? Would you also engage an independent construction supervisor when building with an architect? With a GC, I definitely would, but when working with an architect, where you generally collaborate more closely, I feel like it might come across as a lack of trust.
The only thing that still makes me a bit uncertain is that the scope of services (which would also form the contract basis) is somewhat vague in places: for example, for the masonry, "energy-saving bricks...[]...brick selection is based on thermal calculation..." or for the foundation slab, "will be dimensioned according to structural requirements...". So, unlike many GCs, it does not specify in detail the thickness of the masonry or the foundation slab. However, other parts are described more precisely, similar to GCs.
The architect said that this is often clarified further during the tendering process or by the bids from trades and that it might even be more detailed than with a GC. However, the tendering only happens after I sign the house building contract. At this point, I would have to give him a vote of confidence.
On one hand, he does make a trustworthy impression and has been working according to this model for quite some time, but on the other hand, I’m a bit cautious about giving a vote of confidence when so much money is involved.
What do you think?
I originally planned to build with a general contractor (GC), mainly because of the financial security provided by a fixed price. When working with an architect, I was always worried about unpredictable costs or that the final costs might end up being significantly higher.
Now, through acquaintances, I was recommended a local architect who also offers a fixed price like a GC (for the complete turnkey house). The only difference is, as is typical with architects, that it’s not "all in one hand" but rather separate contracts are signed with the trades, which the architect still handles the tendering process for and coordinates later. His profit would essentially be his fixed fee minus the negotiated costs with the trades.
In the first meeting, everything seemed very professional and honest, and I had a good feeling about it. The price was also in a normal range between the lower-cost GCs and the (seemingly overpriced) GCs. He even includes some items that many GCs put under additional construction costs, such as the foundation slab, removal of earth excavation, etc. The remaining additional costs included in the fixed price were roughly estimated.
That’s why I would like to build with the architect and I have already started an initial exchange regarding the floor plan.
However, I wanted to ask if anyone has experience with this model and if there’s anything I should still watch out for? Would you also engage an independent construction supervisor when building with an architect? With a GC, I definitely would, but when working with an architect, where you generally collaborate more closely, I feel like it might come across as a lack of trust.
The only thing that still makes me a bit uncertain is that the scope of services (which would also form the contract basis) is somewhat vague in places: for example, for the masonry, "energy-saving bricks...[]...brick selection is based on thermal calculation..." or for the foundation slab, "will be dimensioned according to structural requirements...". So, unlike many GCs, it does not specify in detail the thickness of the masonry or the foundation slab. However, other parts are described more precisely, similar to GCs.
The architect said that this is often clarified further during the tendering process or by the bids from trades and that it might even be more detailed than with a GC. However, the tendering only happens after I sign the house building contract. At this point, I would have to give him a vote of confidence.
On one hand, he does make a trustworthy impression and has been working according to this model for quite some time, but on the other hand, I’m a bit cautious about giving a vote of confidence when so much money is involved.
What do you think?
ypg schrieb:
It’s not mentioned anywhere yet. I asked, but haven’t received a reply from the original poster.Sorry, I couldn’t respond earlier because I was working.
As I understood from the initial discussion, I conclude contracts directly with the trades.
The billing process is supposed to work like this:
The trade completes their work --> the architect (or their site manager, if applicable) inspects the work --> if everything is satisfactory, I pay for the respective service.
Admittedly, I didn’t question these details thoroughly during the first conversation, but I definitely want to explore this further in the next meeting. I will also follow up on the earlier point regarding “architectural services under HOAI” and ask to see a sample contract.
N
nordanney3 Dec 2018 17:49jawknee schrieb:
As it was explained to me in the first meeting, I sign contracts directly with the trades. The billing should then proceed as follows: And if the trades end up being more expensive, you have to pay because you are the client? How is that supposed to work?
Either you sign a contract with the architect and he is your contractual partner at a fixed price (then, of course, you can still decide on individual trade contracts). In that case, you could also hire a general contractor.
Or you hire the architect to handle his work phases – a standard architect-led build.
I would not accept the kind of arrangement being offered to you. Why? All the trades will become more expensive because the tender was not done correctly, and you will have to accept change orders with increased costs. The architect will back out and take your "fixed price" payment. But you will have to pay the trades since you are the client, not the architect.
jawknee schrieb:
I will also take up the point mentioned earlier regarding "architectural services under HOAI" I have repeatedly seen the opinion expressed in this forum that the HOAI is binding, and that even if a flat fee was originally agreed upon, the architect might later reconsider and request additional payment; in my view, flat fees can be effectively agreed upon. I am not a lawyer and therefore cannot assess which side is correct.
What I am certain of, however, is that a general contractor’s scope of work may include architectural services, but not the other way around. This mainly relates to maintaining a clear distinction regarding the privileges of freelance professionals, as well as the professional liability of the freelancer, which should not be entangled with the contractor’s warranty obligations.
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First of all, thanks again for the answers so far!
It at least confirms my initial feeling that my hesitations were not unfounded.
What speaks in his favor is that he has been using this model for over 10 years and works exclusively with proven local craftsmen (which is probably why he can estimate the costs relatively well). The few houses in various shell construction stages that I have seen so far also looked decent at first glance, as far as I can judge as a layperson. He doesn’t advertise but relies solely on word of mouth.
As I said, everything seemed respectable, but of course, that doesn’t mean much if the contract terms aren’t right…
I will definitely ask for a sample contract and then inquire more closely about how the contractual process works. Your tips have already been quite helpful in that regard.
It at least confirms my initial feeling that my hesitations were not unfounded.
What speaks in his favor is that he has been using this model for over 10 years and works exclusively with proven local craftsmen (which is probably why he can estimate the costs relatively well). The few houses in various shell construction stages that I have seen so far also looked decent at first glance, as far as I can judge as a layperson. He doesn’t advertise but relies solely on word of mouth.
As I said, everything seemed respectable, but of course, that doesn’t mean much if the contract terms aren’t right…
I will definitely ask for a sample contract and then inquire more closely about how the contractual process works. Your tips have already been quite helpful in that regard.
nordanney schrieb:
And if the trades become more expensive, you have to pay because you are the client? How is that supposed to work?Valid question, I will definitely inquire about that again.
M
Mottenhausen4 Dec 2018 13:22jawknee schrieb:
only works with proven local craftsmenBy the way, exactly this sentence will be told to you by any general contractor, whether a medium-sized one from your city or operating nationwide.
I assume the warranty is then handled separately by each trade? The advantage compared to direct contracting seems to be very small. The architect only acts as a mediator for the craftsmen. With the "fixed price," I would be worried that it is just some behind-the-scenes deal the architect makes with the craftsmen. Whether you can seriously rely on that in a worst-case scenario is questionable. On the other hand, the architect has a strong interest in making sure everything goes smoothly with this "model" and is probably more committed than a typical architect: a GU architect can't just say, "well, sorry, it simply got more expensive," otherwise their word-of-mouth reputation would be gone.
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