ᐅ Bus system / Home installation, seeking advice and cost planning

Shism schrieb:
The problem here isn’t (only) the material cost of the components, but the incredible fees the electrician charges for designing/configuring the installed components...

They make it seem like it’s all very complicated... but with some technical knowledge, you can read up on it yourself in a short time...

And the best part is that for every change you want to make later, you have to call the electrician again who then issues a 200€ (about 220 USD) invoice just for flipping one byte... -.-

My advice: buy the ETS software yourself (costs around 1000€ (about 1100 USD)) and do the configuration yourself... then you can also change things anytime if you want to install new sensors or something bothers you about the old program...

I have to step in here. Preparing a quote is free of charge for the customer! People often forget that this costs money and not every quote is actually executed. I can also add what an electrician today should be capable of handling:
- Electrical installation
- Bus systems
- Antenna/Satellite
- Network technology/Fiber optics
- Telecommunications ISDN/DSL/IP
- Household appliances
- Heating technology
- Lighting technology
Each of these areas is practically a full specialty by itself and requires constant training since the electrician must be an expert in all of them.
We charge 35 euros (about 38 USD) net per hour for installer labor.
We don’t even dare to charge for master electrician hours.
If I compare this to some "IT specialist" who probably doesn’t even have formal training and charges around 60 euros (about 65 USD), I don’t understand the world anymore.

Of course, you can save money by doing work yourself, as long as you know what you’re doing — especially regarding safety, with familiarity with standards like VDE/TAB/UVV and so on.
Working together with an electrician is definitely the better option here.
Usually, though, it goes like this: advice and a quote from the electrician, buying the components online, installing them yourself, realizing it’s not so simple after all, calling the electrician for help, and then complaining about the incredible hourly wage (41.65 euros, about 45 USD)...

Best regards, your Master Electrician

Then I can add what an electrician should be able to do nowadays.
-Electrical installation
-Bus systems
-Antenna/Satellite
-Network technology/Fiber optics
-Telecommunication ISDN/DSL/IP
-Household appliances
-Heating technology
-Lighting technology
Each of these areas is actually a complete specialty and requires constant training because the electrician needs to be an expert in every field.

Yeah, and that’s exactly why hardly any electrician is truly an expert in all these areas... The chance of meeting someone who has only had one or two training sessions on bus systems and then configures a suboptimal setup for you is quite high...

Of course, you can save money by doing work yourself, as long as you understand what you’re doing.
I mean in terms of safety, with knowledge of VDE/TAB UVV standards, etc.
Working together with an electrician is definitely the better option here.

Don’t get me wrong! I’m not saying you should do all the electrical work yourself! I mean configuring the installed bus system devices by yourself!

Electricians are there for the hardware! Programming is not a core skill of electricians!

I’m not saying that an hourly rate of 40-50€ (about $40-50) is unreasonable... But at some point, I can just buy the software myself, learn a bit, and continuously adjust my system until everything works exactly how I want it...

My electricians are already having trouble with installing the empty conduit pipes.

I'm curious to see how it will proceed.

But the best approach is to keep checking regularly.

Stefanoi schrieb:
My electricians are already having trouble with laying the empty conduits.

I’m curious to see how it will continue.

But it’s best to keep checking regularly.

Then you should consider whether this is the right company for the job if you can already tell as a layperson.

On the other hand, electrical installations usually only cost between 5 and 7 thousand euros (or equivalent currency). With developers, it’s often even less, and that price usually includes the developer’s markup. You can imagine what the hourly wages of the workers on such projects are and the level of expertise they have.

I’ve had construction sites where just the bathtub cost more than the entire electrical installation. And during the selection of switch materials, they said, “Oh... the standard switch series is quite expensive…”

Don’t get me wrong… but I unfortunately experience this too often.

Shism schrieb:
Yeah, and that’s exactly why hardly any electrician is truly an expert in all areas... The chance of meeting someone who has only done one or two training sessions on bus systems and then sets up a suboptimal configuration for you is quite high...

Don’t get me wrong! I’m not talking about doing all the electrical work yourself! I’m talking about configuring the installed bus devices yourself!

Electricians are responsible for the hardware! Programming is not really their core expertise!

I’m also not complaining about an hourly rate of $40–50 etc., but after a certain point, I can just buy the software myself, learn a bit, and keep adjusting my system until everything works the way I want...

I hope I’m not misunderstood either.
I think it’s good if the homeowner deals with “their” electrical system and programs it themselves. I always support this, after all, they should truly understand the value their system offers.

What I actually wanted to say in general about bus systems or electrical installation overall:
We, for example, offer customers the best solution for their project.

That doesn’t always have to be a bus system. I have often advised homeowners against it because I noticed they simply didn’t have the technical understanding or it was totally unclear what they actually wanted to achieve with the bus system. Also, when people say: “Then I can also control the blinds with my iPhone,” I usually smile.

After six months, no one uses this expensive feature anymore anyway.

I’m not trying to badmouth the ideas or possibilities that such a system offers, but rather everyone should think beforehand about what makes sense and is worth the money, and what is just an expensive gimmick.

That way, the extra costs remain relatively manageable.
Have a nice evening...

Well, I’m not a complete novice—I come from an electrical trade background and have done some house installations before, though that was a long time ago and I’m probably not up to date anymore.

Unfortunately, I don’t have the time to manage everything myself.

It seems that only the pins were sent to the construction site.