Hello,
I have a farmhouse that I gave up on, and now there is an old unoccupied house and the farm buildings aligned in a row. The entire building is roughly 50 meters (164 feet) long. I want to demolish the house at the front and a small part of the barn. In total, I plan to demolish an area of about 18m x 10m (59ft x 33ft). The building is quite tall, with a ground floor, first floor, and second floor, around 11 meters (36 feet) to the top edge of the roof.
The new house has to be built similarly because I want to connect it to the old barn. The plan is to create apartments inside to rent out. We already have a “good” house next to it, which also has a rented apartment. Since we easily get about ten times the number of rental requests locally, this idea makes a lot of sense. We have been considering this for a long time and have looked into many options. Still, I am happy to get more opinions.
The current house is basically beyond repair; the plaster has almost completely fallen off, it is completely wet, about 300 years old, and mostly empty. Demolishing it won’t be cheap, I suppose. Maybe someone has experience with this?
How many apartments could you expect from a building with 18 x 10 meters (59ft x 33ft) external dimensions and 3 floors? I don’t want a basement. Would it be better to have 3 large apartments or 6 smaller units suitable for 1-2 people? I’m leaning toward 6 smaller apartments since there is more demand for those in the area (there are a lot of large companies nearby). Of course, the downside is that interior finishing costs increase because you need 6 bathrooms alone. Is fitting 6 apartments realistically possible within the living space?
Something else I am pondering: I would prefer the building to be constructed with solid masonry. What time frame would I be looking at from start to finish? Usually, I don’t have the patience for construction projects that drag on endlessly. Recently, I visited a site of a solid wood house, which I liked a lot—it probably goes faster and creates less mess, right?
A new firewall would naturally need to be built, that’s clear. Another thought was to skip an internal staircase and access the individual apartments via external stairs—is that even allowed? I guess probably not.
These are just some initial thoughts I have. I’m open to any suggestions. I will take a picture of the site soon to give a better idea. I understand that some might find building a house just for rental purposes not ideal, but that’s not the point right now. Cost estimates are very welcome. I can do a lot of the interior finishing myself, as I have experience (I renovated the attic in our current house).
Looking forward to your input!
I have a farmhouse that I gave up on, and now there is an old unoccupied house and the farm buildings aligned in a row. The entire building is roughly 50 meters (164 feet) long. I want to demolish the house at the front and a small part of the barn. In total, I plan to demolish an area of about 18m x 10m (59ft x 33ft). The building is quite tall, with a ground floor, first floor, and second floor, around 11 meters (36 feet) to the top edge of the roof.
The new house has to be built similarly because I want to connect it to the old barn. The plan is to create apartments inside to rent out. We already have a “good” house next to it, which also has a rented apartment. Since we easily get about ten times the number of rental requests locally, this idea makes a lot of sense. We have been considering this for a long time and have looked into many options. Still, I am happy to get more opinions.
The current house is basically beyond repair; the plaster has almost completely fallen off, it is completely wet, about 300 years old, and mostly empty. Demolishing it won’t be cheap, I suppose. Maybe someone has experience with this?
How many apartments could you expect from a building with 18 x 10 meters (59ft x 33ft) external dimensions and 3 floors? I don’t want a basement. Would it be better to have 3 large apartments or 6 smaller units suitable for 1-2 people? I’m leaning toward 6 smaller apartments since there is more demand for those in the area (there are a lot of large companies nearby). Of course, the downside is that interior finishing costs increase because you need 6 bathrooms alone. Is fitting 6 apartments realistically possible within the living space?
Something else I am pondering: I would prefer the building to be constructed with solid masonry. What time frame would I be looking at from start to finish? Usually, I don’t have the patience for construction projects that drag on endlessly. Recently, I visited a site of a solid wood house, which I liked a lot—it probably goes faster and creates less mess, right?
A new firewall would naturally need to be built, that’s clear. Another thought was to skip an internal staircase and access the individual apartments via external stairs—is that even allowed? I guess probably not.
These are just some initial thoughts I have. I’m open to any suggestions. I will take a picture of the site soon to give a better idea. I understand that some might find building a house just for rental purposes not ideal, but that’s not the point right now. Cost estimates are very welcome. I can do a lot of the interior finishing myself, as I have experience (I renovated the attic in our current house).
Looking forward to your input!
You could upload some pictures. What do you mean by "approx. 11 m to the top edge of the roof" – ridge height or eave height?
Approximately when was the building constructed?
Two factors make construction debris disposal costly: a mix of materials ("not separated") such as stones, wood, metal, plastics, glass; and hazardous or special waste (e.g., asbestos) or decomposed material.
I assume it is a traditional single-building farmhouse – is it a Mittertennhaus or a Mitterstallhaus? In any case, you should have a local or at least regionally experienced carpenter familiar with this building style examine where possible structural separation points might be. (If I understand correctly, you want to cut about 18 m length off a 50 m long single-slope / single-ridge building and rebuild it.)
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Approximately when was the building constructed?
Two factors make construction debris disposal costly: a mix of materials ("not separated") such as stones, wood, metal, plastics, glass; and hazardous or special waste (e.g., asbestos) or decomposed material.
I assume it is a traditional single-building farmhouse – is it a Mittertennhaus or a Mitterstallhaus? In any case, you should have a local or at least regionally experienced carpenter familiar with this building style examine where possible structural separation points might be. (If I understand correctly, you want to cut about 18 m length off a 50 m long single-slope / single-ridge building and rebuild it.)
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Bayern-Racing schrieb:
And how quickly will the new building be completed? Just roughly—I have no idea whether it takes 2 months or a year. What do you think about a project of this size using solid wood construction? I like it because there’s basically no mess and the whole process is faster. (How fast?)
As I said, I’m not the type to have a construction site in front of my door for years; my nerves wouldn’t handle that. I’m a bit of a perfectionist and everything has to be in order.Then forget about it quickly. As others have already mentioned, the old building cannot be structurally damaged during demolition, yet you think demolition costs of €50,000 are too high. I believe that’s realistic, but as you were advised, you should first secure legal approval for the new build before even thinking about demolition.
I think spending 2–3 hours with a competent architect will open your eyes to what you’re planning and whether it is realistic at all.
As a perfectionist and fan of order, you will also have plenty of fun being a landlord right next door (if I remember correctly). /sarcasm
Best regards
Dirk Grafe
B
Bayern-Racing11 Mar 2017 11:2911ant schrieb:
You could upload some pictures. What do you mean by "around 11 m to the top edge of the roof" – ridge height or eaves height?
Approximately how old is the building?
I suspect a traditional single-structure house – is it a Mittertennhaus or a Mitterstallhaus? In any case, you should have a local or at least regionally experienced carpenter familiar with this building type take a look to identify potential structural separation points (if I understood correctly, you want to cut about 18 meters off a 50 m single-pitched roof / single-ridge roof and rebuild that section).About 11 m (36 feet) ridge height
The building is around 300–350 years old.
The top floor and roof frame were newly added in 1950 and are comparatively "in good condition."
That’s correct, the building is part of a row. The first 18 meters (59 feet) are to be removed, and then the same section rebuilt exactly there.
I like the idea of using Ytong, as mentioned before. Can anyone estimate the cost advantage of a standard brick masonry house compared to a Ytong house? For example, if a shell made of brick costs $100,000, and a shell made of Ytong costs $50,000.
Can someone tell me roughly how the prices compare?
I just find it odd that you never see such projects with Ytong. I’ve seen many construction sites, but never one using Ytong.
Ytong is a type of block that isn’t very popular in your southern region. Compared to Poroton bricks, its advantage is that with a reasonable wall thickness of 36.5cm (14.4 inches), you can meet energy efficiency regulations without additional insulation. (With Poroton, you usually have to use those filled with perlite.) This obviously saves labor costs since an entire work step is eliminated. That’s why Ytong is quite popular in the north. The masons can cover large surface areas quickly because of the big block sizes. Ytong is cut to size, and despite the size of the blocks, it’s not too heavy, which is easier on the masons’ backs. It is installed using a special adhesive, so there is little water in the masonry. However... whether you can reach a ridge height of 11m (36 feet) with Ytong, whether there are companies nearby who work with it, and whether it’s cost-effective, you will need to check locally. By the way: Ytong contains a lot of air, so its sound insulation isn’t great. But that probably doesn’t matter much in rural areas.
My masonry costs with Ytong, including plaster, are 28,000 plus tax for a building measuring 10m (32.8 feet) by 13.5m (44.3 feet) by 2.75m (9 feet). This includes blocks, mortar, plaster, and labor. Karsten
My masonry costs with Ytong, including plaster, are 28,000 plus tax for a building measuring 10m (32.8 feet) by 13.5m (44.3 feet) by 2.75m (9 feet). This includes blocks, mortar, plaster, and labor. Karsten
The generic term for this material is "aerated concrete" or "autoclaved aerated concrete" (AAC). Besides the other major manufacturer Hebel, there are several smaller ones. Ytong has simply become a synonym for it, similar to how Tempo or Tesa are used.
Aerated concrete is very lightweight—not only easy to lift, but also easy (meaning effortless and with simple tools) to saw. The first aspect led to the era of large-format blocks, which significantly sped up masonry work. The second makes this building material popular for infill walls, which is why it is often found in timber frame renovation projects.
Its low weight reduces structural demands, allowing interior walls to be built independently of the walls below. To my knowledge, it is approved for use in buildings up to eight stories.
It can be manufactured precisely (meaning smooth-edged blocks), which is why it has long been available as “plan blocks” with a thin adhesive layer (similar to tile adhesive) instead of thick mortar joints. This makes it a masonry unit that hobby builders find almost as easy to work with as drywall, and consequently, it is popular for kit homes.
Prices (and thus price ratios compared to other products) vary significantly by region.
Aerated concrete is strong and, as mentioned, easy to fit. This also makes it well suited for replacing damaged sections of existing walls. However, I expect that the construction method of your house might prevent you from “surgically” removing a lengthwise section of a “row house” with precision.
Another popular material for renovations is sand-lime brick (calcium silicate brick): it does not need to be interlocked but can abut exterior walls as an interior partition by just butting up against them. Where masonry interior walls need to connect to a timber frame exterior wall to be preserved, sand-lime brick is often preferred.
Regarding sound insulation, I personally trust practical experience over theories. My father lived in a house built with aerated concrete, and I myself rented a hall made from it. Its surface, when unplastered, is slightly sound-absorbing, though not considered visually appealing for residential use. I know sand-lime brick from family friends who had a house made of it as exposed masonry, and from my school gymnasium.
Lightweight expanded clay aggregate blocks (also here: Poroton is a brand name) are also good in my opinion. In my region, a lot of building still uses pumice blocks—that’s typical for the volcanic Eifel area.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Aerated concrete is very lightweight—not only easy to lift, but also easy (meaning effortless and with simple tools) to saw. The first aspect led to the era of large-format blocks, which significantly sped up masonry work. The second makes this building material popular for infill walls, which is why it is often found in timber frame renovation projects.
Its low weight reduces structural demands, allowing interior walls to be built independently of the walls below. To my knowledge, it is approved for use in buildings up to eight stories.
It can be manufactured precisely (meaning smooth-edged blocks), which is why it has long been available as “plan blocks” with a thin adhesive layer (similar to tile adhesive) instead of thick mortar joints. This makes it a masonry unit that hobby builders find almost as easy to work with as drywall, and consequently, it is popular for kit homes.
Prices (and thus price ratios compared to other products) vary significantly by region.
Aerated concrete is strong and, as mentioned, easy to fit. This also makes it well suited for replacing damaged sections of existing walls. However, I expect that the construction method of your house might prevent you from “surgically” removing a lengthwise section of a “row house” with precision.
Another popular material for renovations is sand-lime brick (calcium silicate brick): it does not need to be interlocked but can abut exterior walls as an interior partition by just butting up against them. Where masonry interior walls need to connect to a timber frame exterior wall to be preserved, sand-lime brick is often preferred.
Regarding sound insulation, I personally trust practical experience over theories. My father lived in a house built with aerated concrete, and I myself rented a hall made from it. Its surface, when unplastered, is slightly sound-absorbing, though not considered visually appealing for residential use. I know sand-lime brick from family friends who had a house made of it as exposed masonry, and from my school gymnasium.
Lightweight expanded clay aggregate blocks (also here: Poroton is a brand name) are also good in my opinion. In my region, a lot of building still uses pumice blocks—that’s typical for the volcanic Eifel area.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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