ᐅ Architect with fixed price and later general contractor (GC) arrangement
Created on: 26 Sep 2017 18:02
H
HamoDEHello everyone,
We are currently planning to build a single-family house. We are at the very beginning and need to decide with whom and how we want to build.
So far, we have visited several companies that offer solid building construction and handle everything from start to finish.
Alternatively, we have also spoken with two architects with whom acquaintances have already built. Neither architect charges based on HOAI.
Architect A offers a fixed price for the following services:
Design of the single-family house including the building permit/planning permission application and drainage applications
Structural calculations
Thermal insulation certificate according to the Energy Saving Ordinance
Execution planning and construction supervision are not included.
For this, a fee of 4000 euros plus VAT is charged.
Architect B offers a fixed price for the following services:
Design, approval planning, and execution planning for 3000 euros plus VAT
Additional services such as preparing tenders, assisting with contract awards, and construction supervision for 2500 euros plus VAT.
According to our acquaintances, the second architect was initially quite involved in construction supervision but was hardly present on the site towards the end. He was also relatively slow in responding and obtaining quotes.
We have only received positive feedback about Architect A, which is why he is still in consideration.
Most clients who worked with Architect A later chose the same general contractor. We have also received only positive feedback about this general contractor.
Now we are considering going with this setup: Architect A and the general contractor (due to the very good reputation).
The question is whether Architect A’s offer is even permissible, or what you experts think about it.
Thank you very much for your effort.
We are currently planning to build a single-family house. We are at the very beginning and need to decide with whom and how we want to build.
So far, we have visited several companies that offer solid building construction and handle everything from start to finish.
Alternatively, we have also spoken with two architects with whom acquaintances have already built. Neither architect charges based on HOAI.
Architect A offers a fixed price for the following services:
Design of the single-family house including the building permit/planning permission application and drainage applications
Structural calculations
Thermal insulation certificate according to the Energy Saving Ordinance
Execution planning and construction supervision are not included.
For this, a fee of 4000 euros plus VAT is charged.
Architect B offers a fixed price for the following services:
Design, approval planning, and execution planning for 3000 euros plus VAT
Additional services such as preparing tenders, assisting with contract awards, and construction supervision for 2500 euros plus VAT.
According to our acquaintances, the second architect was initially quite involved in construction supervision but was hardly present on the site towards the end. He was also relatively slow in responding and obtaining quotes.
We have only received positive feedback about Architect A, which is why he is still in consideration.
Most clients who worked with Architect A later chose the same general contractor. We have also received only positive feedback about this general contractor.
Now we are considering going with this setup: Architect A and the general contractor (due to the very good reputation).
The question is whether Architect A’s offer is even permissible, or what you experts think about it.
Thank you very much for your effort.
I can hardly imagine that a general contractor would support or agree to option B. In that case, you would almost not need a general contractor if architect B does their job properly.
I find it hard to believe that the execution planning is included in the 3,000€ (about $3,200) price. The listed tasks from architect B alone make up nearly 90% of the services according to HOAI.
The price from A is also reasonable. A general contractor would also take on this.
I find it hard to believe that the execution planning is included in the 3,000€ (about $3,200) price. The listed tasks from architect B alone make up nearly 90% of the services according to HOAI.
The price from A is also reasonable. A general contractor would also take on this.
Architect A has already built several houses in the area with the general contractor. They are a well-coordinated team. If, like me, you tend to be generally pessimistic, you might see this in a negative light.
Architect B would handle subcontractor coordination, which he would take care of entirely.
How the overall service compares to the price is still not entirely clear to me.
Architect B would handle subcontractor coordination, which he would take care of entirely.
How the overall service compares to the price is still not entirely clear to me.
Take candidate C.
Candidate A stops where it gets interesting. What use is a building permit/planning permission alone if you want to create the construction drawings yourself and the site manager acts like Uncle Franz?
Candidate B sounds like a one-man show. Someone who takes every project just to practice architecture instead of waiting tables. If he has only one client, he puts in full effort; if he has several, then his emails come at night and he is scarce on site (?)
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Candidate A stops where it gets interesting. What use is a building permit/planning permission alone if you want to create the construction drawings yourself and the site manager acts like Uncle Franz?
Candidate B sounds like a one-man show. Someone who takes every project just to practice architecture instead of waiting tables. If he has only one client, he puts in full effort; if he has several, then his emails come at night and he is scarce on site (?)
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
All fee agreements or flat rates below the HOAI are invalid. The architect (or a third party) can verify this and demand the minimum rate.
However, this seems to be common practice in some regions, and if the architect has references, you don’t necessarily have to assume the worst.
I just wonder what one can realistically expect for the fees shown here. That is an incredibly low amount of money for the expected services.
Both are truly cheap. Emphasis on cheap. It’s a miracle anyone even goes to the construction site for that.
Our architects visit the construction site daily (whenever work is being carried out, of course), yet the fee has an extra zero. Zone 3, quarter rate.
However, this seems to be common practice in some regions, and if the architect has references, you don’t necessarily have to assume the worst.
I just wonder what one can realistically expect for the fees shown here. That is an incredibly low amount of money for the expected services.
Both are truly cheap. Emphasis on cheap. It’s a miracle anyone even goes to the construction site for that.
Our architects visit the construction site daily (whenever work is being carried out, of course), yet the fee has an extra zero. Zone 3, quarter rate.
In rural areas, this might not be so critical.
And Architect A does not actually go out to the construction site. They only create the drawings and have them approved. The rest is then handled independently or taken over by the general contractor (GC).
However, I wonder whether it is even possible to commission a trade if you only have the planning permission drawings and not the detailed execution plans. How can the trades then submit a realistic offer based on that?
And Architect A does not actually go out to the construction site. They only create the drawings and have them approved. The rest is then handled independently or taken over by the general contractor (GC).
However, I wonder whether it is even possible to commission a trade if you only have the planning permission drawings and not the detailed execution plans. How can the trades then submit a realistic offer based on that?
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