ᐅ New Construction Gas Heating – How to Design Underfloor Heating for a Heat Pump?
Created on: 20 Oct 2014 08:53
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Vega82We are still in the planning phase for our little house.
At first, I was considering going straight for a heat pump, but for cost reasons, I have now decided against it.
According to our planner, the difference when building without a heat pump lies not only in the different heating system but also in a "thinner" underfloor heating design and the omission of the ladder radiator in the bathroom.
I have now thought about preparing for the future by possibly having the underfloor heating installed closer together and including the ladder radiator in the bathroom (apparently, it’s not really possible without it).
This would probably allow me to operate the gas heating system at a temperature of 35°C (95°F).
What do you think about this? Is there an actual savings on gas heating costs if you can run it at 10 degrees lower? Does my approach make sense at all, or am I just lining the pockets of the heating installer?
At first, I was considering going straight for a heat pump, but for cost reasons, I have now decided against it.
According to our planner, the difference when building without a heat pump lies not only in the different heating system but also in a "thinner" underfloor heating design and the omission of the ladder radiator in the bathroom.
I have now thought about preparing for the future by possibly having the underfloor heating installed closer together and including the ladder radiator in the bathroom (apparently, it’s not really possible without it).
This would probably allow me to operate the gas heating system at a temperature of 35°C (95°F).
What do you think about this? Is there an actual savings on gas heating costs if you can run it at 10 degrees lower? Does my approach make sense at all, or am I just lining the pockets of the heating installer?
I would recommend installing the pipes closer together. The advantage is that if you ever want to replace or upgrade the heating system, you only need to replace the heat generator. Otherwise, you might limit your options later on. The additional costs should be fairly limited.
Yes, additional costs would be only 1000 €, with the most expensive item being the ladder radiator in the bathroom. It is apparently necessary to ensure a sufficiently high room temperature given the low heating temperature and the small area (just under 11 m (36 feet)) of the room.
For cost reasons, since we have already reached our set budget limit and I don’t share the obsession some have to install a heat pump, additional insulation, rainwater systems, and who knows what else at any cost 😉
I think many of these decisions come down to personal beliefs... I have read a lot, talked to other homeowners, and formed my own opinion.
Therefore, we are installing a gas condensing boiler without solar panels.
Gas is available on our property. We need to lay about 3 meters (10 feet) of gas pipe to the house.
Solar would add 5,000 euros in extra costs.
Air source heat pump would add 8,000 euros in extra costs.
Ground source heat pump would add 13,000 euros in extra costs.
When I calculate how long it would take for these technologies to pay off at these prices, the decision about what to install becomes easy.
And even then, no one can guarantee that these systems will operate with the same efficiency and reliability for 20 years.
But that would be getting off topic.
I know there are many specialists here, and I’m happy to receive advice. That’s why I’m here, but I want to stay within a reasonable financial and economically sensible framework.
I think many of these decisions come down to personal beliefs... I have read a lot, talked to other homeowners, and formed my own opinion.
Therefore, we are installing a gas condensing boiler without solar panels.
Gas is available on our property. We need to lay about 3 meters (10 feet) of gas pipe to the house.
Solar would add 5,000 euros in extra costs.
Air source heat pump would add 8,000 euros in extra costs.
Ground source heat pump would add 13,000 euros in extra costs.
When I calculate how long it would take for these technologies to pay off at these prices, the decision about what to install becomes easy.
And even then, no one can guarantee that these systems will operate with the same efficiency and reliability for 20 years.
But that would be getting off topic.
I know there are many specialists here, and I’m happy to receive advice. That’s why I’m here, but I want to stay within a reasonable financial and economically sensible framework.
B
Bauexperte20 Oct 2014 12:08Hello,
What is your budget?
The price for the geothermal heat pump seems reasonable for a total drilling depth of 100.00 m (330 feet) or two drillings of 50.00 m (165 feet) each; I don’t understand the additional surcharges beyond that. Most suppliers today already include KfW 70 as standard, whether with a gas condensing boiler or an air-to-water heat pump.
Best regards, Bauexperte
Vega82 schrieb:Yes, internet knowledge... you shouldn’t let that influence you too much. More is not always better!
For cost reasons, because we are already at our set budget limit and I don’t share the obsession some have to install a heat pump, extra insulation, rainwater systems, and God knows what else at any price 😉
What is your budget?
Vega82 schrieb:Are you planning to build a house according to KfW standards?
Solar costs us an additional 5000 Euro
Air-source heat pump costs us an additional 8000 Euro
Geothermal heat pump costs us an additional 13,000 Euro.
The price for the geothermal heat pump seems reasonable for a total drilling depth of 100.00 m (330 feet) or two drillings of 50.00 m (165 feet) each; I don’t understand the additional surcharges beyond that. Most suppliers today already include KfW 70 as standard, whether with a gas condensing boiler or an air-to-water heat pump.
Vega82 schrieb:You should not forget that a gas condensing boiler will not last as long as older gas heaters due to condensate corrosion. What can fail in an air-to-water or geothermal heat pump—apart from affordable minor parts—does not really make sense to me. Of course, you are right that there are not yet reliable data on the lifespan of these newer systems.
And even then, no one guarantees to me that these technologies will operate for 20 years with the same efficiency and reliability.
Best regards, Bauexperte
We are building to KfW70 standards, which we can achieve without solar panels by using a controlled mechanical ventilation system (Helios), which is required by the local development plan anyway.
I was also surprised by the additional cost for solar. If it had been half the price, I might have considered it, but $5000 just doesn’t pay off.
Our budget is 180,000, which we have already slightly exceeded. All extras are included in this. (130 sqm (1400 sq ft) floor area, gable roof, rectangular layout)
The air-source heat pump would be a combined unit as a freestanding device in the utility room for air heating and integrated controlled ventilation. Alpha Innotec LWC80.
Maybe that’s why it’s so expensive... I’m also thinking about getting a quote for an outdoor freestanding unit.
As mentioned, I think there are pros and cons to everything... if money wasn’t an issue, I would go for a ground-source heat pump. But with the uncertainties about lifespan and reliability, I currently don’t see a reason to pay the extra cost. Also, because we have natural gas directly on the property, the connection costs (which are also partially subsidized by the local energy provider) remain relatively low.
I was also surprised by the additional cost for solar. If it had been half the price, I might have considered it, but $5000 just doesn’t pay off.
Our budget is 180,000, which we have already slightly exceeded. All extras are included in this. (130 sqm (1400 sq ft) floor area, gable roof, rectangular layout)
The air-source heat pump would be a combined unit as a freestanding device in the utility room for air heating and integrated controlled ventilation. Alpha Innotec LWC80.
Maybe that’s why it’s so expensive... I’m also thinking about getting a quote for an outdoor freestanding unit.
As mentioned, I think there are pros and cons to everything... if money wasn’t an issue, I would go for a ground-source heat pump. But with the uncertainties about lifespan and reliability, I currently don’t see a reason to pay the extra cost. Also, because we have natural gas directly on the property, the connection costs (which are also partially subsidized by the local energy provider) remain relatively low.
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