Good morning,
I couldn’t think of a better title. That’s the classic problem with contractors.
You could already be glad to get anyone at all to provide an estimate. That alone delayed the renovation. A general contractor was hired for the renovation including 2 bathrooms, guest toilet, wall removal, pipe replacement, drywall, window replacement, tiling, and so on.
This is not a shell construction! Some new things are already installed (e.g., kitchen temporarily stored in the living room until the kitchen is finished), part of the floor is parquet, which still needs to be sanded. My problem now: the place is completely filthy because, in my opinion, they didn’t protect it properly. Here are some highlights:
- The entire house is covered with almost a centimeter (about 0.4 inches) thick layer of construction dust, including my kitchen units
- For example, a white wall that was still clean and that I did not want to paint has black handprints on it
- Construction debris dumped on the lawn, even though I provided a dumpster container
- Bathroom door frame chipped and otherwise scratched up
- In some places, my work equipment was used and dirtied (wheelbarrow, shovel, plastering screed, ladder cemented with mortar, placed on a chair in the basement and dirtied)
- Windows not properly covered and dirtied with plaster and so on
- Dirt thrown everywhere and not separated (metal scrap could have been taken away quickly if sorted)
- Natural stones at the entrance were concreted in, they were already partly damaged but were supposed to stay for now and be fixed later; now they are completely ruined (covered with plaster, broken because something was dropped on them)
- Cigarette butts thrown all over the floor, even though I told them three times to stop
- With the deposit from beer cans and energy drink cans lying around my house, a bottle collector could take a week off
And the absolute highlight: one of the workers defecated behind the garage, and I stepped right in it with my nice new sneakers (luckily it was Sunday and no one else was there or I would have lost it). I think that I am not the builder but just the client for the tradespeople’s services, and if the boss doesn’t provide a portable toilet or removes all toilets at once and works on the plumbing, it is his responsibility to take care of his employees’ sanitary needs.
I’m pretty annoyed, partly not fully satisfied with the work (e.g., heating system estimate lost, drywall to close heating niche, towel radiator moved to another location, I’d expect the closed niche to be insulated but it isn’t), and I’m glad when it’s finally over.
Is this kind of working method normal? Can I charge for cleaning?
I couldn’t think of a better title. That’s the classic problem with contractors.
You could already be glad to get anyone at all to provide an estimate. That alone delayed the renovation. A general contractor was hired for the renovation including 2 bathrooms, guest toilet, wall removal, pipe replacement, drywall, window replacement, tiling, and so on.
This is not a shell construction! Some new things are already installed (e.g., kitchen temporarily stored in the living room until the kitchen is finished), part of the floor is parquet, which still needs to be sanded. My problem now: the place is completely filthy because, in my opinion, they didn’t protect it properly. Here are some highlights:
- The entire house is covered with almost a centimeter (about 0.4 inches) thick layer of construction dust, including my kitchen units
- For example, a white wall that was still clean and that I did not want to paint has black handprints on it
- Construction debris dumped on the lawn, even though I provided a dumpster container
- Bathroom door frame chipped and otherwise scratched up
- In some places, my work equipment was used and dirtied (wheelbarrow, shovel, plastering screed, ladder cemented with mortar, placed on a chair in the basement and dirtied)
- Windows not properly covered and dirtied with plaster and so on
- Dirt thrown everywhere and not separated (metal scrap could have been taken away quickly if sorted)
- Natural stones at the entrance were concreted in, they were already partly damaged but were supposed to stay for now and be fixed later; now they are completely ruined (covered with plaster, broken because something was dropped on them)
- Cigarette butts thrown all over the floor, even though I told them three times to stop
- With the deposit from beer cans and energy drink cans lying around my house, a bottle collector could take a week off
And the absolute highlight: one of the workers defecated behind the garage, and I stepped right in it with my nice new sneakers (luckily it was Sunday and no one else was there or I would have lost it). I think that I am not the builder but just the client for the tradespeople’s services, and if the boss doesn’t provide a portable toilet or removes all toilets at once and works on the plumbing, it is his responsibility to take care of his employees’ sanitary needs.
I’m pretty annoyed, partly not fully satisfied with the work (e.g., heating system estimate lost, drywall to close heating niche, towel radiator moved to another location, I’d expect the closed niche to be insulated but it isn’t), and I’m glad when it’s finally over.
Is this kind of working method normal? Can I charge for cleaning?
barfly666 schrieb:
I believe I am not the builder, but merely the client commissioning the tradespeople. Then be the builder!
Olli-Ka schrieb:
With a reputable company, that shouldn’t happen—they have their own tools. This concerns wheelbarrows, shovels, and ladders... if they’re lying around, they will be used. Even by reputable companies. Completely normal in my opinion. They should clean them afterward, and that’s fine.
In my opinion, mostly normal.
You have to cover your kitchen yourself if you are doing a major renovation next to it, same with the floors.
Also, minor damages to door frames and such are unavoidable.
But I also wonder: everything with an invoice? Doesn’t sound like it to me, so you probably have to accept what’s offered.
You have to cover your kitchen yourself if you are doing a major renovation next to it, same with the floors.
Also, minor damages to door frames and such are unavoidable.
But I also wonder: everything with an invoice? Doesn’t sound like it to me, so you probably have to accept what’s offered.
B
barfly6669 Dec 2020 11:38Thanks for the responses! Here’s the latest update: I’ve been robbed as well. I had a case from the office stored in the basement (the contractor works with a maximum of 4 people, so it’s easy to keep track of who was in the house), but now it’s gone.
Of course, all services were ordered with proper invoices and VAT and will be billed accordingly. No undeclared work here. I run my own business; that would put me at risk — I’m not stupid. Also, having pipes and so on installed without invoices (and thus no warranty) is just not an option.
The entire property *ahem* is secured with a 2-meter (6.5 ft) fence; at most, a squirrel or a bird could mess there — no dog or anything else can get in.
I can see there are very different opinions. I still believe that when you work somewhere, you have to ensure you don’t cause more damage than before when you finish. Well, I’m curious to see how we’ll settle this in the end.
Things are slowly starting to look a bit better, and you can begin to imagine how it will eventually look. Slowly, some excitement is setting in...
nordanney schrieb:Yes, I will deduct costs if defects are not fixed by the end.
With the measures you mentioned, this is (more or less) normal. A major renovation inevitably means dirt everywhere. I’d say the real issue is that you’re already storing furniture during the “shell construction” phase or expecting everything to be done without dirt.
As for the workers’ mess, no, that kind of behavior is not normal.
From what you describe, this sounds like a consumer construction contract. You probably have a retention of payment clause — you should definitely use it.
That aside, you’re also assuming things that aren’t standard unless agreed upon (no portable toilet contractually agreed = workers have to go somewhere, no insulation in the niche = has insulation been agreed and paid for?).
Anyway, the tradespeople are responsible for any damages.
Olli-Ka schrieb:I don’t know if they were migrant workers. That tip came from the new neighborhood (and such tips are invaluable! It’s really hard to get a tradesperson). A house across the street was completely renovated, and I got to see the work. I did notice little things here and there, but overall it looked neat, and that renovation was definitely on a much higher budget level than mine. I didn’t see them working, just the finished result.
Or were these some obscure, super cheap “migrant workers”?
With a proper company, this wouldn’t happen because they have their own tools.
Work areas are usually covered as well.
And the issue with toilets should be clarified beforehand.
Regards, Olli
HilfeHilfe schrieb:So here we go again with “invoice” questions...
Was everything invoiced??? Just asking 🙂 Otherwise, I can’t imagine anyone defecating in your garden except a dog. Or did you lock the toilet?
Of course, all services were ordered with proper invoices and VAT and will be billed accordingly. No undeclared work here. I run my own business; that would put me at risk — I’m not stupid. Also, having pipes and so on installed without invoices (and thus no warranty) is just not an option.
The entire property *ahem* is secured with a 2-meter (6.5 ft) fence; at most, a squirrel or a bird could mess there — no dog or anything else can get in.
Tassimat schrieb:Why should I be the builder? I specifically chose not to buy undeveloped land (okay, none was available anyway) but an older existing property. And if I have 60-year-old door frames that were originally high-quality woodwork and have lasted the 60 years, I’m annoyed if no one takes some care. I see myself as the client commissioning skilled trades.
Then be a builder yourself!
This is about wheelbarrows, shovels, and ladders... if they’re left out, they’ll be used, even by reputable companies. Totally normal in my opinion. They should clean up afterwards, and that’s it.
I can see there are very different opinions. I still believe that when you work somewhere, you have to ensure you don’t cause more damage than before when you finish. Well, I’m curious to see how we’ll settle this in the end.
Things are slowly starting to look a bit better, and you can begin to imagine how it will eventually look. Slowly, some excitement is setting in...
M
Matthew039 Dec 2020 11:42barfly666 schrieb:
Well, I’m curious to see how things will be resolved in the end.Please keep us updated, I’m interested.
What are you doing about the alleged theft?
barfly666 schrieb:
So, the latest update: I also got robbed.Hello,
our son had a model train set in the attic, and several locomotives have gone missing.
They just disappeared all of a sudden.
During the time they went missing, only the chimney sweep and a heating technician (the heating unit is located in the attic) had been working there.
I am sure it wasn’t the chimney sweep.
We have a strange feeling about the heating technician since they haven’t gotten back in touch despite having a maintenance contract.
But you can’t prove anything, so we wrote off the loss and repurchased items via online auctions or stores.
What remains is an—probably unnecessary—distrust towards unattended contractors.
Regards, Olli
@barfly666 By the way, I share your view. A professional tradesperson makes sure that nothing is unnecessarily damaged through their work (heavy dirt is also damage in my opinion) and cleans up after themselves. Unfortunately, I have had to experience that many tradespeople do not see it that way or at least have a different basic understanding of cleanliness and order.
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