Good morning,
I couldn’t think of a better title. That’s the classic problem with contractors.
You could already be glad to get anyone at all to provide an estimate. That alone delayed the renovation. A general contractor was hired for the renovation including 2 bathrooms, guest toilet, wall removal, pipe replacement, drywall, window replacement, tiling, and so on.
This is not a shell construction! Some new things are already installed (e.g., kitchen temporarily stored in the living room until the kitchen is finished), part of the floor is parquet, which still needs to be sanded. My problem now: the place is completely filthy because, in my opinion, they didn’t protect it properly. Here are some highlights:
- The entire house is covered with almost a centimeter (about 0.4 inches) thick layer of construction dust, including my kitchen units
- For example, a white wall that was still clean and that I did not want to paint has black handprints on it
- Construction debris dumped on the lawn, even though I provided a dumpster container
- Bathroom door frame chipped and otherwise scratched up
- In some places, my work equipment was used and dirtied (wheelbarrow, shovel, plastering screed, ladder cemented with mortar, placed on a chair in the basement and dirtied)
- Windows not properly covered and dirtied with plaster and so on
- Dirt thrown everywhere and not separated (metal scrap could have been taken away quickly if sorted)
- Natural stones at the entrance were concreted in, they were already partly damaged but were supposed to stay for now and be fixed later; now they are completely ruined (covered with plaster, broken because something was dropped on them)
- Cigarette butts thrown all over the floor, even though I told them three times to stop
- With the deposit from beer cans and energy drink cans lying around my house, a bottle collector could take a week off
And the absolute highlight: one of the workers defecated behind the garage, and I stepped right in it with my nice new sneakers (luckily it was Sunday and no one else was there or I would have lost it). I think that I am not the builder but just the client for the tradespeople’s services, and if the boss doesn’t provide a portable toilet or removes all toilets at once and works on the plumbing, it is his responsibility to take care of his employees’ sanitary needs.
I’m pretty annoyed, partly not fully satisfied with the work (e.g., heating system estimate lost, drywall to close heating niche, towel radiator moved to another location, I’d expect the closed niche to be insulated but it isn’t), and I’m glad when it’s finally over.
Is this kind of working method normal? Can I charge for cleaning?
I couldn’t think of a better title. That’s the classic problem with contractors.
You could already be glad to get anyone at all to provide an estimate. That alone delayed the renovation. A general contractor was hired for the renovation including 2 bathrooms, guest toilet, wall removal, pipe replacement, drywall, window replacement, tiling, and so on.
This is not a shell construction! Some new things are already installed (e.g., kitchen temporarily stored in the living room until the kitchen is finished), part of the floor is parquet, which still needs to be sanded. My problem now: the place is completely filthy because, in my opinion, they didn’t protect it properly. Here are some highlights:
- The entire house is covered with almost a centimeter (about 0.4 inches) thick layer of construction dust, including my kitchen units
- For example, a white wall that was still clean and that I did not want to paint has black handprints on it
- Construction debris dumped on the lawn, even though I provided a dumpster container
- Bathroom door frame chipped and otherwise scratched up
- In some places, my work equipment was used and dirtied (wheelbarrow, shovel, plastering screed, ladder cemented with mortar, placed on a chair in the basement and dirtied)
- Windows not properly covered and dirtied with plaster and so on
- Dirt thrown everywhere and not separated (metal scrap could have been taken away quickly if sorted)
- Natural stones at the entrance were concreted in, they were already partly damaged but were supposed to stay for now and be fixed later; now they are completely ruined (covered with plaster, broken because something was dropped on them)
- Cigarette butts thrown all over the floor, even though I told them three times to stop
- With the deposit from beer cans and energy drink cans lying around my house, a bottle collector could take a week off
And the absolute highlight: one of the workers defecated behind the garage, and I stepped right in it with my nice new sneakers (luckily it was Sunday and no one else was there or I would have lost it). I think that I am not the builder but just the client for the tradespeople’s services, and if the boss doesn’t provide a portable toilet or removes all toilets at once and works on the plumbing, it is his responsibility to take care of his employees’ sanitary needs.
I’m pretty annoyed, partly not fully satisfied with the work (e.g., heating system estimate lost, drywall to close heating niche, towel radiator moved to another location, I’d expect the closed niche to be insulated but it isn’t), and I’m glad when it’s finally over.
Is this kind of working method normal? Can I charge for cleaning?
barfly666 schrieb:
Why should I be the client? I specifically chose not to buy a vacant plot (well, you can’t really get one anyway) but an older existing property. And when I have 60-year-old door frames that were once beautifully crafted by a skilled carpenter and have lasted those 60 years, I get pretty annoyed if no one takes a bit of care. I see myself as the client commissioning a skilled trade service. barfly666 schrieb:
I see myself as the client commissioning a skilled trade service. The term “client” or “principal” doesn’t only apply to new construction. My point was that you might need to be more involved and give clear instructions on the construction site. Working with tradespeople and on building sites is not just about signing a contract and assuming that’s enough. Someone has to be responsible for the overall project, beyond the contracted services, and also consider the interactions and sequence of the different trades.
If a 60-year-old door is important to you, then you should have the door leaf removed and protect the frame. Or, as the client, you need to specifically contract that service. At the very least, you have to clearly communicate to the team on site that the door must be protected from now on. Otherwise, the tradespeople might assume thoughtlessly that the door will be replaced later anyway. Or they may not have the materials to protect it simply because no one on site informed them about the door.
Winniefred11 Dec 2020 16:49Deduct the cost of anything that is damaged from the invoice if you cannot reach an agreement in an earlier conversation. Request cleaning, meaning the cleaning of the frequently used equipment. If necessary, I would do this myself and consider it done. Construction dust, etc., is completely normal. Anyone who places items on a construction site where bathrooms are being renovated must really expect this. I never thought about it before either; we have renovated as well.
A damaged door frame is not normal. The question is whether you can prove it was not damaged beforehand. Otherwise, they might say it’s 60 years old and already had marks.
Unfortunately, the reality is that you have to take care of many things yourself. In my opinion, a toilet is included, or at least you should clarify this with the supervisor in advance. People obviously need somewhere to go to the bathroom. We always made sure that at least one toilet remained accessible. Masking windows and doors, etc., is something you should rather do yourself.
This is all unsatisfactory, but after three years in an old building with various tradespeople and projects managed on my own, I can tell you that most of this is normal.
A damaged door frame is not normal. The question is whether you can prove it was not damaged beforehand. Otherwise, they might say it’s 60 years old and already had marks.
Unfortunately, the reality is that you have to take care of many things yourself. In my opinion, a toilet is included, or at least you should clarify this with the supervisor in advance. People obviously need somewhere to go to the bathroom. We always made sure that at least one toilet remained accessible. Masking windows and doors, etc., is something you should rather do yourself.
This is all unsatisfactory, but after three years in an old building with various tradespeople and projects managed on my own, I can tell you that most of this is normal.
B
barfly66616 Dec 2020 09:10Hello,
Beautiful granite slabs, a delivery arrived later showing slightly different shades (discussion with the tradesman who thinks natural stone can’t have different batches, I explained that it can happen if slabs come from a different part of the quarry later). No problem, they can be laid where the kitchen units stand. Some slabs have damaged corners, of course nobody did it, it was already like that… but never mind:
Day 1, first row laid, I come to the site and one slab has a crack, I said “Didn’t you see that? It looks bad, remove it, redo it.”
Days 2–4, the tradesman thinks, I’ll leave it half finished and install the upstairs windows first (only half done).
Day 5, the 4th row is laid, one slab is completely dark, I said “I told you, what’s that? It looks awful.” The tradesman explains the slabs soak up moisture from the adhesive and will lighten again after drying; I don’t really believe that.
Days 6–7, finished laying, but only half grouted, the slab is still terribly dark and stands out completely, I could puke.
Due to scheduling, the floor sander was already upstairs. Old-school guy, the floor looks really cool *happy*. The bathroom isn’t finished yet though. I’ve warned the tradespeople many times not to step on the floor until it’s dry and fully cured. I think I saw tiles upstairs that weren’t there before. There is a dent in the flooring in front of the door where there is no finish applied… hmm... of course it wasn’t upstairs… I warned again to cover everything or else I will deduct the repair costs. I even brought thick plastic sheets and old flooring from the basement to cover the path. The next day the plastic was gone (supposedly it was too slippery) and the floor was poorly protected again, as shown in the picture:
Matthew03 schrieb:Reluctantly accept it at first and finally write it off. The boss was visibly embarrassed and it gave him a headache. But he can’t question every one of his people either, since they would all deny it anyway. We will probably come to an agreement. :-/
Please keep us updated, I’m interested.
What are you doing about the suspected theft?
Tassimat schrieb:If I get more involved, I’ll end up tiling myself or they’ll just quit. I’m on site every day besides my regular work. Just a small example:
You might need to get more involved and give clear instructions on site. With tradespeople and on construction sites, just having a contract isn’t enough, assuming that will do the job. Someone has to be responsible for the big picture, beyond the contracted tasks, and consider the interactions (sequence) with other trades.
Beautiful granite slabs, a delivery arrived later showing slightly different shades (discussion with the tradesman who thinks natural stone can’t have different batches, I explained that it can happen if slabs come from a different part of the quarry later). No problem, they can be laid where the kitchen units stand. Some slabs have damaged corners, of course nobody did it, it was already like that… but never mind:
Day 1, first row laid, I come to the site and one slab has a crack, I said “Didn’t you see that? It looks bad, remove it, redo it.”
Days 2–4, the tradesman thinks, I’ll leave it half finished and install the upstairs windows first (only half done).
Day 5, the 4th row is laid, one slab is completely dark, I said “I told you, what’s that? It looks awful.” The tradesman explains the slabs soak up moisture from the adhesive and will lighten again after drying; I don’t really believe that.
Days 6–7, finished laying, but only half grouted, the slab is still terribly dark and stands out completely, I could puke.
Tassimat schrieb:Well, I do think that this comes with the order if I commission something like that. A painter won’t say “painting costs $500, but masking everything will cost another $2,000.”
If a 60-year-old door is important, you should remove the door leaf and protect the frame. Or as the client, make sure to order exactly that service 😉 At least you have to clearly tell the people on site that the door needs protecting from now on. Otherwise, the tradespeople will thoughtlessly assume the door will be replaced later. Or they might have no materials to protect it because the people on site didn’t know about the door.
Due to scheduling, the floor sander was already upstairs. Old-school guy, the floor looks really cool *happy*. The bathroom isn’t finished yet though. I’ve warned the tradespeople many times not to step on the floor until it’s dry and fully cured. I think I saw tiles upstairs that weren’t there before. There is a dent in the flooring in front of the door where there is no finish applied… hmm... of course it wasn’t upstairs… I warned again to cover everything or else I will deduct the repair costs. I even brought thick plastic sheets and old flooring from the basement to cover the path. The next day the plastic was gone (supposedly it was too slippery) and the floor was poorly protected again, as shown in the picture:
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