ᐅ Consultation for Smart Home New Construction Wireless Systems

Mycraft schrieb:


Here is our example again. The total cost for electrical work was about 10% of the overall construction budget. But of course, you could also spend five times that amount if you wanted to. However, it's not necessary.

As several people have mentioned here, you need to decide how much a smart home or intelligent building is worth to you. In the end, I was glad to find a skilled and affordable electrician who didn’t deliver a fully smart building but did a good job on the conventional electrical installations. I plan to integrate the system with some wireless modules and wired systems, controlled by a Raspberry pi, and in the end, I will pay less than four percent of the total construction budget for the entire electrical work including the smart home components. I don’t criticize anyone who spends 10 percent. I can understand that since I come from the automation industry myself, but for me, flooring and large-format tiles were more important. And ultimately, you also have to be able to justify it to the government at home ;-)

Strahleman schrieb:

Personally, I now cringe when I hear about a new build being equipped with a "Smart Home" system using wireless technology, while also mentioning Alexa or Google Home. To me, that at best is just about ease of use (though I never quite understand why someone would tell Alexa what to do instead of just quickly pressing a button).
I’m not completely against wireless systems, but all the limitations (Actuator x only available with Z-Wave, actuator y cannot be integrated into my smart home hub, button z must be EnOcean to avoid battery replacement...) are frustrating.

That all feels too prone to errors and more like a DIY project than a well-designed overall concept. Especially when aiming for a truly "smart" home, wireless solutions can get very complicated. Systems like KNX or other bus systems are much more systematic and organized—though admittedly a bit more expensive (although this really depends on the installer or integrator).

The problem seems to be that, as an average user who perhaps just wants to benefit from a well-functioning KNX system within reasonable limits, it’s apparently not possible to simply "buy" such a system. This is because, from what I often read here, about 90% of electricians or service providers don’t really master it, which may result in only more expensive, half-hearted solutions being installed.
Since I no longer enjoy wasting endless time on settings, manuals, internet searches, etc., for things like this (including underfloor heating and heat pumps), I now avoid it altogether and have the tradespeople install what they understand and can explain clearly to me. So probably no KNX or similar, since I want to enjoy my home without a technical degree and without the feeling that I got a moderately functioning but costly system that IT specialists here would just criticize anyway. It’s a pity—we’re looking for technical innovation, convenience, and comfort, but apparently, some people end up with a complicated burden that causes more annoyance than improvement. I do understand what the technology can do to some extent, but for the average homebuilder, it’s neither manageable nor reliably foreseeable to purchase.

As I mentioned above, the biggest challenge in smart homes or smart buildings is the users themselves.

1. Different temperature preferences among residents. Usually, women prefer higher comfort temperatures.
2. To revisit the topic of automated shading: the woman likes it bright, I prefer shade. So a "smart" system is out of the question. As soon as the sun shines in, the blinds move to a horizontal position. That’s it. My Somfy control system handles that.
3. Lighting controlled by PIR sensors is annoying in the rooms. It’s fine in hallways, bathrooms, or dressing rooms, but elsewhere I find it disturbing because I don’t always need light or full brightness.
4. Letting the photovoltaic system decide when the washing machine starts isn’t practical either, because I don’t want the laundry sitting wet in the drum while I am at work.

10% of the construction costs seems a bit exaggerated.
You don’t really need “smart” systems. They just make things more convenient. We wouldn’t even have that many switches.
It’s similar to the debate about whether a router placed centrally in the house is enough (everything over Wi-Fi) or if you need LAN wiring and several access points.
If you only have one or two systems and don’t want to link them together, that’s fine. But if it gets more complex, people usually use a standard like KNX and do wired installation in new construction.
Whether you “need” it or not is something only the individual can decide. What’s possible depends on your own creativity.
The example with the fireplace is very fitting...
I don’t remember the last time I used a physical light switch in the house. But we’ve only been living here a few weeks.
The lights turn on and off in the right places, dimming works, and special scenes are activated via voice control.
Even my wife, who is very skeptical about technology, thinks it’s good. You don’t really notice all the systems running in the background.
The only frustration happens when I or the system integrator are programming and something doesn’t work or behaves differently :p but that’s independent of the system.

Alessandro schrieb:

Sorry @Mycraft but you can’t make Smart Home appealing to me 😉

That wasn’t my intention. You’ve already decided against it. In that case, it’s usually like fighting windmills. But we can still discuss it and exchange opinions.

Alessandro schrieb:

Regarding wireless: When I think of EnOcean with its self-sufficient window contacts/handles, switches, sensors, and even valve actuators, I save a lot of wiring and batteries.

It’s simply a different approach but achieves roughly the same thing. However, it has its own challenges and often requires more technology than basically necessary. The biggest drawbacks are aesthetics and tactile feel. The light switches have already put off many interested parties.

@Brainstorming
Everyone has their priorities. For some, it has to be a garage attached to the house; for others, a carport is enough. What I sometimes don’t understand is why people from the automation industry go for wireless in new builds and create a zoo of protocols and devices that then "somehow" work together or side by side.

pagoni2020 schrieb:

The problem seems to be that as a normal user who might just want to enjoy the benefits of a KNX system within a reasonable scope, I apparently can’t really "buy" such a well-functioning "KNX" system, because about 90% of electricians/service providers don’t really master it (at least that’s how I often read it here), which might result in expensive, half-hearted installations.

Most regular users can’t grasp the full range of functionalities anyway. Sometimes even the people who work with it daily can’t fully understand everything. There is simply so much on the market nowadays that it’s almost impossible to keep track, and people don’t really have the time for it. That’s why you have to sit down together and first explain the broad possibilities to the client. Then ask about their wishes and needs, and finally show what’s possible beyond that.

The expensive, half-hearted setups still offer the full potential. It doesn’t matter if it was installed by an apprentice, a master electrician, or a journeyman with very different levels of knowledge about the subject and possibilities. Since everything is standardized, any electrician with "more know-how" or simply more creativity can adjust the devices to function exactly as the homeowner wants and significantly extend their capabilities. Even 10 or 20 years later.

An IT-savvy homeowner can even handle this easily themselves... and if someone isn’t tech-savvy, there are options to adjust parameters to a certain extent via built-in devices or tablets without any prior knowledge. The features just have to be enabled during initial setup (or later on over the years), and users only need to follow the instructions in the manual.

And KNX is a safe bet because it continuously evolves and maintains high quality standards. Take smartphones as an example. Thirty years ago, when KNX came into existence, no one could imagine a pocket-sized computer like we have today. Nowadays, KNX can be controlled via pretty much any smartphone out there.

pagoni2020 schrieb:

By now I simply don’t like wasting endless time with settings, manuals, online searches... and so on (also for things like underfloor heating + heat pumps). So I just avoid it and have the tradesmen install what they understand and can explain clearly; so probably no KNX, since I want to enjoy my home without a special degree and without the feeling that I got some mediocre but expensive setup,

That’s a completely wrong interpretation. KNX actually simplifies many complicated processes for the average user or completely pushes them into the background. As a homeowner, you don’t need to worry about the laws of thermodynamics or calculate ventilation volumes. The technology should handle that. That’s exactly what KNX is for.

The homeowner sets desired temperatures on a display/phone/tablet, and the technology takes care of the rest, coordinated by KNX like an orchestra conductor. You just tell the conductor what should be played — and sometimes it even knows by itself.

pagoni2020 schrieb:

I do understand to some extent what the technology can do, but it is not easily predictable or controllable for the average home builder to buy in.

That can all be clarified. The typical home builder usually doesn’t have the time; they’ve just heard it costs thousands of dollars and don’t have that kind of budget. But if you take the leap and everything is done properly, most are more than satisfied and even enthusiastic in the end.

Alessandro schrieb:

1. Different temperature preferences of residents. Usually, women need higher comfort temperatures.

Yes, but floor heating makes that irrelevant anyway.

Alessandro schrieb:

2. To pick up on automated shading again: she likes it bright, I prefer shade. So a "smart" concept is out. As soon as the sun hits, the blinds move into horizontal position. That’s it. My Somfy controller takes care of it.

I don’t see anything smart about that. Just a simple if-then condition regardless of anything else. But maybe you’re leaving out something.

Alessandro schrieb:

3. PIR sensor lighting annoys me in the rooms. In hallways, bathrooms, dressing rooms it’s fine, but elsewhere I find it disturbing because I don’t always want light or full brightness.

You don’t have to automate everything needlessly. If you want a switch in the bedroom, by all means. But in hallways, bathrooms, dressing rooms, and other utility rooms, you suddenly notice that half the house can do without switches entirely.

And yes, some scenarios have long been developed or imagined. For example, the amount of light provided can be adjusted based on need. I’m not talking about constant light levels here.

Alessandro schrieb:

4. Having the photovoltaic system decide when the washing machine runs isn’t practical either, because I don’t want laundry sitting freshly washed in the drum while I’m at work.

Well, people have different opinions on this.

T_im_Norden schrieb:

I already suspected there wouldn’t be anything concrete.

How detailed do you want it? I don’t have a block diagram handy. The roller shutter simply stays open as long as someone is inside, even if the door closes behind them accidentally. The motor receives many parameters via the bus and then decides which position to move to. If it’s still shaded, it moves to one of the appropriate positions. If it’s already dark, it moves fully down. Naturally, with certain hysteresis and wait times. It’s not supposed to keep running back and forth constantly.

Mycraft schrieb:

Most regular users can’t really grasp the full range.

Yep. I have the time; where could I read a brief, clear, and reliable overview to understand what a "normal user" might need to have a basic setup, or to estimate whether it could be suitable for me?
At first, I was against a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery, but after researching and discussing it, I will probably go for one because it fits our habits. I’m somewhat averse to too much automation, as I still want to decide myself and react differently to lighting and such on a daily basis. Still, I’m interested; whether it suits me, I would find out. But where?

Mycraft schrieb:

That’s why you have to sit down together

With the electrician?? How do I tell if they belong to the 10% who really know their stuff? I’m in the 90% 😀

Mycraft schrieb:

The average homebuilder simply doesn’t have time for that

At least in this case, I’m unusual...... besides, I think people nowadays don’t have less time than “in the past,” they just use it differently 😀

I would like some things to be “automatic,” but I can’t judge when I would actually need such a system or if my needs can still be covered well with conventional options. Now I have a family member who’s an electrician apprentice and has offered to help, but in the end, I’m unsure to what extent that could be implemented alongside the main electrician if I decide to go for it.