Hello,
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
We are starting to get really frustrated... every builder tells us something different...
We want to build a 130sqm (1,399 sq ft) KfW 70 house with the living room facing south, and we are unsure whether to choose gas or an air source heat pump. Some providers, at almost the same price level, offer us air source heat pumps and claim that the annual costs are significantly (30%) lower compared to gas, while others doubt this.
We understand that insulation with gas/solar systems is usually better because an air source heat pump boosts efficiency more towards KfW 70 standards compared to gas/solar, which might argue in favor of gas. An air source heat pump might fail somewhat sooner, and in case of problems, you can usually get quick and competent local support with gas. With air source heat pumps, there could be more difficulties. Additionally, the noise of air source heat pumps (in our case about 3 meters (10 feet) from the neighbor) is not insignificant. Some say that sooner or later, everyone ends up having issues with neighbors for this reason.
We are interested in air source heat pumps with storage tanks from these providers: Vaillant, Mitsubishi Zubadan, and Rotex.
What we are really curious about is the annual cost for heating and hot water with both systems.
We live near Kassel.
What should we choose, and what would be cost-effective TODAY? What is your opinion on Vaillant?
Regards
Gigi
@Cascanda:
What are the annual costs in euros for your neighbors with the air source heat pump, approximately? (Are they over €800?)
How large are the houses?
@All:
Do I now need a fully modulating air source heat pump to be reasonably sure of being cheaper than gas plus solar thermal system?
What are the annual costs in euros for your neighbors with the air source heat pump, approximately? (Are they over €800?)
How large are the houses?
@All:
Do I now need a fully modulating air source heat pump to be reasonably sure of being cheaper than gas plus solar thermal system?
gigi schrieb:
@Cascanda:
What are the annual costs in euros for your neighbors with the air-source heat pump? (If they are above 800€?)
How large are the houses? Hello,
None are below 1000-1200€, with house sizes around 130-150 sqm (1400-1600 sq ft).
Those using gas pay monthly installments of about 120-140€ per month.
Of course, this is not very representative due to the small number of cases.
Regards...
gigi schrieb:
...do I now need a fully modulating air source heat pump to be reasonably sure of being cheaper than gas plus solar thermal system? What is the actual demand (capacity, energy) for heating and domestic hot water? Which climate zone?Best regards
The climate zone is 7a. Of course, I can't say the actual demand... how could I? We are a household of three and like to have 20°C (68°F) indoors during winter. From 1 pm there is usually someone at home on weekdays. Hot water usage is average.
Are the two systems located so close to each other that it really needs to be calculated so precisely? Accordingly, with small variations, one system might be more worthwhile sometimes and the other at other times?
Are the two systems located so close to each other that it really needs to be calculated so precisely? Accordingly, with small variations, one system might be more worthwhile sometimes and the other at other times?
gigi schrieb:
The climate zone is 7a. Of course, I can’t say the actual demand…. how could I? How can anyone want to build a house without first knowing what consumption costs to expect later for heating, hot water, and possibly ventilation? I would never consider that. Of course, the actual demand can be calculated beforehand! This is the crucial basis for everything else. The consumption is then determined in connection with the respective technical solution. This allows those systems, as well as the investment for them, to be evaluated.
gigi schrieb:
.....Are the two systems so close to each other that you have to calculate that so precisely? The days of the open campfire are over. Back then, there was no need to calculate anything. Modern technology is expensive, can be very efficient, but at the same time is very sensitive. Without precise planning and sizing, you will get a heating system that provides warmth, but it will not be efficient. The systems are not close to each other but—depending on boundary conditions—can be quite far apart. With a heat pump, consumption is lower than demand, but the specific price per kWh is higher. With conventional heat generators, it’s the opposite.
Frequently, forums ask the question: “We have XY system, is this consumption normal?” This is completely pointless because what would you compare it to if you don’t even have concrete numbers for your own building? As a result, buildings often have much higher consumption than actually necessary for decades.
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