Hello dear home builders,
Do you have a water softening system? Is it really worth it, or is it just a money-making scheme?
Our architect recommended one to us, but the question is whether the 3000 euros really justify it.
I think that’s a lot of money.
Do you have a water softening system? Is it really worth it, or is it just a money-making scheme?
Our architect recommended one to us, but the question is whether the 3000 euros really justify it.
I think that’s a lot of money.
C
chand198628 Sep 2018 08:24@R.Hotzenplotz
Bathing every day. I've been wondering since the middle of your house construction how you manage the strain from work and building... now it’s all clear.
Bathing every day. I've been wondering since the middle of your house construction how you manage the strain from work and building... now it’s all clear.
R
R.Hotzenplotz28 Sep 2018 08:25Yes, the landlord is completely unreasonable. I only pay for electricity myself, and everything else is charged at the local standard basic rent rate. He didn’t realize this when the contract was signed, so I had the rent fixed for five years right away.
R
R.Hotzenplotz3 Oct 2018 00:46So, I’ve checked now. The water consumption should be around 300m³ (10,600 cubic feet) per year.
The general contractor (GC) offered the following:
Water softener system “Judo SOFTWELLS S.” Electrical connection 230V supplied on site. Installation package for connection/ modification to the existing piping system.
Conel above-ground flow chamber Flow Box with built-in submersible pump as a condensate pump including pressure pipe to sewer connection without electrical connection. Additional cost EUR 4,605.30 gross. Removal of existing condensate pump consisting of: Conel condensate pump for draining condensate or excess pressure water including pressure pipe. Discount: EUR 351.00
Total additional cost EUR 4,254.30 gross.
Today I had another company come by. They said they could easily retrofit this after the GC’s work. They recommend the Grünbeck softliQ:SC 18. I explicitly mentioned that we use a lot of water, we have a shower with a flow rate of 26 liters (7 gallons) per minute, and we also shower and bathe simultaneously, etc.—but they still think this model is sufficient. The GC’s plumbing supplier also selected the simplest product from Judo.
On the other hand, when entering our data into Grünbeck’s product finder, it suggests selling me the softliQ:MC32. This is triggered by the question: “high-quality sanitary fittings? YES.” Even leaving out the high-quality fittings from the questions results in the SoftliQ:SC 23.
I find the system proposed by the GC unacceptable. It is a single-tank system without time-controlled regeneration. This means that during a shower, hard water suddenly flows through the pipes when regeneration starts. That’s a no-go! The Judo system is only acceptable as a Softwell P with two tanks. When I called Judo and described our requirements, the representative said I should forget about the Softwell S and that I need the Judo Softwell Maxi system for our water consumption. The Grünbeck supplier I spoke with today said that wouldn’t make sense because the pipes aren’t even that thick.
I’m still undecided about what to do. The Softwell S is definitely out. The Judo Softwell P is conceivable, although Judo themselves advise against it. Grünbeck, unfortunately, only offers two-tank technology starting from the MC32. However, at least their single-tank units have time-controlled (learning) regeneration, which likely occurs overnight.
So at the moment, I’m leaning toward the Judo Softwell P for continuous soft water supply through two tanks. With Grünbeck, two tanks would only be possible with the very expensive MC series. However, maybe Grünbeck’s single-tank system with night regeneration would be sufficient. It’s difficult. What makes the decision harder is that the manufacturers each recommend significantly larger systems (Judo customer service on the phone and Grünbeck product finder online), while the installers each recommend the simplest available units.
The general contractor (GC) offered the following:
Water softener system “Judo SOFTWELLS S.” Electrical connection 230V supplied on site. Installation package for connection/ modification to the existing piping system.
Conel above-ground flow chamber Flow Box with built-in submersible pump as a condensate pump including pressure pipe to sewer connection without electrical connection. Additional cost EUR 4,605.30 gross. Removal of existing condensate pump consisting of: Conel condensate pump for draining condensate or excess pressure water including pressure pipe. Discount: EUR 351.00
Total additional cost EUR 4,254.30 gross.
Today I had another company come by. They said they could easily retrofit this after the GC’s work. They recommend the Grünbeck softliQ:SC 18. I explicitly mentioned that we use a lot of water, we have a shower with a flow rate of 26 liters (7 gallons) per minute, and we also shower and bathe simultaneously, etc.—but they still think this model is sufficient. The GC’s plumbing supplier also selected the simplest product from Judo.
On the other hand, when entering our data into Grünbeck’s product finder, it suggests selling me the softliQ:MC32. This is triggered by the question: “high-quality sanitary fittings? YES.” Even leaving out the high-quality fittings from the questions results in the SoftliQ:SC 23.
I find the system proposed by the GC unacceptable. It is a single-tank system without time-controlled regeneration. This means that during a shower, hard water suddenly flows through the pipes when regeneration starts. That’s a no-go! The Judo system is only acceptable as a Softwell P with two tanks. When I called Judo and described our requirements, the representative said I should forget about the Softwell S and that I need the Judo Softwell Maxi system for our water consumption. The Grünbeck supplier I spoke with today said that wouldn’t make sense because the pipes aren’t even that thick.
I’m still undecided about what to do. The Softwell S is definitely out. The Judo Softwell P is conceivable, although Judo themselves advise against it. Grünbeck, unfortunately, only offers two-tank technology starting from the MC32. However, at least their single-tank units have time-controlled (learning) regeneration, which likely occurs overnight.
So at the moment, I’m leaning toward the Judo Softwell P for continuous soft water supply through two tanks. With Grünbeck, two tanks would only be possible with the very expensive MC series. However, maybe Grünbeck’s single-tank system with night regeneration would be sufficient. It’s difficult. What makes the decision harder is that the manufacturers each recommend significantly larger systems (Judo customer service on the phone and Grünbeck product finder online), while the installers each recommend the simplest available units.
R.Hotzenplotz schrieb:
The water consumption is probably around 300 m³ per year. 300 m³/year is quite a considerable amount. That’s about three times higher than a typical single-family house.
R.Hotzenplotz schrieb:
I specifically said that we use a lot of water, have a shower with a flow rate of 26 liters per minute, and that we sometimes shower and bathe at the same time, etc. — yet he still thinks this model is sufficient. With two showers running simultaneously, you reach about 50 liters per minute or 3 m³ per hour. A single-column system won’t work at all with that. The Softwell P is also pushed to its limit when considering pressure losses. What is your inlet pressure? In the Softwell P category, Grünbeck no longer offers anything else; at that point, it would actually have to be the MC32. It might not even be much more expensive compared to your current offer since the MC can pump its wastewater on its own up to approximately 2 meters (6.5 feet) above the finished floor level. Otherwise, what’s the overflow chamber in the offer for?
R
R.Hotzenplotz4 Oct 2018 11:31MayrCh schrieb:
Or what else is the above-ground shaft from the offer good for?No idea. The supplier is not responding.
What surprises me is that the second plumber I consulted also offered a small Grünbeck system, even though I told him about the water demand here. He then said that the thin pipe wouldn’t allow for more anyway.
I don’t know the pressure. On the other hand, it must be high because they installed a pressure reducer.
R
R.Hotzenplotz4 Oct 2018 11:32MayrCh schrieb:
Or what else would the above-ground shaft from the offer be good for?No idea. The supplier is playing dead.
What surprises me is that the second plumber I consulted also offered a small Grünbeck system, even though I told him about the actual water demand here. He then said that the thin pipe wouldn’t allow for anything better anyway.
I don’t know the pressure. On the other hand, it must be high, since they installed a pressure reducer.
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