ᐅ New Construction Shell Phase Decision: Hire a Contractor or an Architect?
Created on: 24 Aug 2018 03:10
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Infosauger
Hello,
I am planning to build a single- or two-family house and have an idea of how I might proceed. I would like to hear or read your opinions, as this approach may not be fully developed and might lack many details (e.g., requirements and predefined materials). I would appreciate some support.
Currently, there is a fully serviced plot of land available. I want to build a standard house on it—so no special components and no exceptional thermal insulation, just a maximum energy standard of KfW 70-90. It should be two stories with a full basement (usable cellar) and a gable roof pitched at about 35-45 degrees, possibly with a knee wall depending on the price, since the attic might be converted later. I am looking for a shell construction including roof and basement, without plastering or screeding work. Windows, sanitary installations, heating, and electrical systems would be tendered separately. The house has a footprint of about 125-130 sqm (1345-1400 sq ft) per floor.
What specifications should be made? Building materials? U-value? I was thinking of sending various shell construction companies self-prepared dimensioned floor plans, area calculations, and a volume calculation. Question: What information is needed for a preliminary quote? If the price is acceptable, is it possible to use a structural engineer or architect through the builder?
At the same time, I would also submit my planning to architects or present it in a free initial consultation. What else should I consider or possibly mention when requesting a quote?
PS: Sorry for the spelling mistakes. I wrote this text on an old iPad.
I am planning to build a single- or two-family house and have an idea of how I might proceed. I would like to hear or read your opinions, as this approach may not be fully developed and might lack many details (e.g., requirements and predefined materials). I would appreciate some support.
Currently, there is a fully serviced plot of land available. I want to build a standard house on it—so no special components and no exceptional thermal insulation, just a maximum energy standard of KfW 70-90. It should be two stories with a full basement (usable cellar) and a gable roof pitched at about 35-45 degrees, possibly with a knee wall depending on the price, since the attic might be converted later. I am looking for a shell construction including roof and basement, without plastering or screeding work. Windows, sanitary installations, heating, and electrical systems would be tendered separately. The house has a footprint of about 125-130 sqm (1345-1400 sq ft) per floor.
What specifications should be made? Building materials? U-value? I was thinking of sending various shell construction companies self-prepared dimensioned floor plans, area calculations, and a volume calculation. Question: What information is needed for a preliminary quote? If the price is acceptable, is it possible to use a structural engineer or architect through the builder?
At the same time, I would also submit my planning to architects or present it in a free initial consultation. What else should I consider or possibly mention when requesting a quote?
PS: Sorry for the spelling mistakes. I wrote this text on an old iPad.
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Infosauger25 Aug 2018 02:09That’s exactly the indicator I’m focused on. Thanks for the tip about the stone types according to the Energy Saving Ordinance; I have since figured that out as well, along with the fact that there are various DIN standards and the 2016 Energy Saving Ordinance, which are to be applied together. Great! We’re making progress!
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HilfeHilfe25 Aug 2018 06:57Infosauger schrieb:
That’s exactly the indicator I’m talking about. Thanks for the tip regarding stone types according to the energy-saving regulations—I’ve figured that out by now, along with the fact that there are various DIN standards and the 2016 energy-saving regulation, which must be applied together. Great! We’re making progress! You just don’t want to understand. Or are you working for free as well? Try calling a few architects and see how they respond.
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chand198625 Aug 2018 08:11I will try to objectively summarize why so many people here are shaking their heads in disbelief:
@Infosauger, you sound like you want to “screen” an architect during free preliminary meetings. It’s legitimate and reasonable that you don’t want to choose the first one you meet. However, a realistic cost estimate from an architect requires a lot of information that YOU must provide beforehand and THEY must process. At the same time, the demand for architects is currently very high – they simply don’t have to compete for projects.
So, if you want accurate forecasts, they come with a workload that no good architect will provide for free. And the free estimates you might get are correspondingly imprecise.
You’re slowly realizing that your call for bids needs significantly more details than you initially thought. My recommendation: read carefully what information you need to provide, and then invest some money in preliminary inquiries with 2-3 architects. If you choose well here, that money will be very well spent.
By the way: It shouldn’t surprise you that your expectation to get services from freelancers for free is seen here as an unpleasant attitude. In what situation would such an expectation be justified or even normal? My grandmother would have said: “That just isn’t done, young man!”
@Infosauger, you sound like you want to “screen” an architect during free preliminary meetings. It’s legitimate and reasonable that you don’t want to choose the first one you meet. However, a realistic cost estimate from an architect requires a lot of information that YOU must provide beforehand and THEY must process. At the same time, the demand for architects is currently very high – they simply don’t have to compete for projects.
So, if you want accurate forecasts, they come with a workload that no good architect will provide for free. And the free estimates you might get are correspondingly imprecise.
You’re slowly realizing that your call for bids needs significantly more details than you initially thought. My recommendation: read carefully what information you need to provide, and then invest some money in preliminary inquiries with 2-3 architects. If you choose well here, that money will be very well spent.
By the way: It shouldn’t surprise you that your expectation to get services from freelancers for free is seen here as an unpleasant attitude. In what situation would such an expectation be justified or even normal? My grandmother would have said: “That just isn’t done, young man!”
I’m not keen on saying this, but the original poster is somewhat right.
Of course, it makes sense to talk to the people involved—whether architect or builder. He is probably trying to figure out the *how* right now. However, asking about the structural shell costs or the type of brick at this point is premature and off the mark. Most forum members have dealt extensively with many companies. Some have even created Excel sheets for every little comparison. We are probably exceptions (3 architects, 1 prefabricated house supplier → in the end, we managed the contracting ourselves without an architect, and the house is standing).
You set the budget! Whether it’s KfW 70 or a passive house standard, that’s up to you. Hiring an architect means that, in case of doubt, cost certainty isn’t guaranteed (the architect has to put things out to tender first, or you do it based on their plans if you don’t want to pay them for this stage). For a prefabricated house, everything can be fully planned and priced from the start. However, not everyone chooses to contract individual trades themselves.
As for whether architects will talk with you for more than 1 session of 2 hours, you’ll have to find that out yourself. In any case, you will learn something from each conversation—even if it’s just that you should first discuss style and house type before debating the brick composition, and that a “proper” architect doesn’t just redraw your draft neatly but actually designs it themselves. Drafting is the job of architectural technicians, but they are not architects.
Well, whatever the case, you will still have a lot to learn, and I think there’s a very good chance that the conversations won’t go exactly as you currently expect.
Of course, it makes sense to talk to the people involved—whether architect or builder. He is probably trying to figure out the *how* right now. However, asking about the structural shell costs or the type of brick at this point is premature and off the mark. Most forum members have dealt extensively with many companies. Some have even created Excel sheets for every little comparison. We are probably exceptions (3 architects, 1 prefabricated house supplier → in the end, we managed the contracting ourselves without an architect, and the house is standing).
You set the budget! Whether it’s KfW 70 or a passive house standard, that’s up to you. Hiring an architect means that, in case of doubt, cost certainty isn’t guaranteed (the architect has to put things out to tender first, or you do it based on their plans if you don’t want to pay them for this stage). For a prefabricated house, everything can be fully planned and priced from the start. However, not everyone chooses to contract individual trades themselves.
As for whether architects will talk with you for more than 1 session of 2 hours, you’ll have to find that out yourself. In any case, you will learn something from each conversation—even if it’s just that you should first discuss style and house type before debating the brick composition, and that a “proper” architect doesn’t just redraw your draft neatly but actually designs it themselves. Drafting is the job of architectural technicians, but they are not architects.
Well, whatever the case, you will still have a lot to learn, and I think there’s a very good chance that the conversations won’t go exactly as you currently expect.
H
HilfeHilfe25 Aug 2018 08:16chand1986 schrieb:
I will try to objectively summarize why many people here are shaking their heads in disbelief:
@Infosauger, you sound like you want to “cast” an architect during free initial consultations. It’s perfectly legitimate and correct that you don’t want to choose the first one you meet. However, a realistic cost estimate from an architect requires a lot of information that YOU must provide in advance and that THEY have to process. At the same time, the workload for architects is very good right now—they simply do not need to compete intensely for projects. So if you want precise forecasts, these involve an amount of work that no good architect will do for free. And any estimates offered for free will naturally be less accurate.
You are gradually finding out that a tender from you requires much more detailed information than you initially thought. My recommendation: Read carefully what information you need to provide, and then invest some money to request preliminary inquiries from 2-3 architects. If you choose well, this money will be very well spent.
By the way: If your expectation that freelancers provide their services for free is perceived here as a negative attitude, that should not surprise you. Where is such an expectation ever considered justified or normal? My grandmother would have said: “That’s just not done, kid!”Exactly! And that’s where the problem lies. Infosauger wants the information that he should provide himself also on a tablet. A good architect wants to have a comprehensive picture, including how the zoning plan looks and so on. It’s like going to a workshop without bringing a car for repairs and saying “it’s making a rattling noise, how much will that cost?”
H
HilfeHilfe25 Aug 2018 08:17Maria16 schrieb:
I don’t really like to say this, but the original poster does have a point.
Of course, it makes sense to talk with people — whether architects or contractors. He’s probably trying to figure out the HOW right now. However, asking about the shell construction costs or the bricks at this stage is simply the wrong question, way too early. Most forum members have dealt with many companies. Some have even created Excel spreadsheets for every little comparison. We are probably the exception (3 architects, 1 prefab supplier — we ended up contracting the work ourselves without an architect, and the house is built ).
You set the budget! Whether KfW 70 or passive house standards. Hiring an architect means that cost certainty is not guaranteed (they still need to invite bids, or you do using their plans if you don’t want to pay them for those steps). A prefab home means everything can be planned and priced upfront from the start. Assigning individual trades yourself is something not everyone wants to do.
Well, whether architects will talk to you for more than one or two hours, you’ll have to find out yourself. In any case, you will learn something from every conversation — even if it’s just that you should first discuss style and house type, rather than immediately debating the brick composition; and that a “proper” architect doesn’t just create your design in a final draft but actually designs it themselves. Draftsmen do the drawings but are not architects.
Anyway, it is what it is, you will still have a lot to learn and I think there’s a very good chance the conversations won’t go exactly as you expect right now.Nonsense, no architect will talk for 2-3 hours for free if they could be making money or playing golf. We’re not at the doctor’s office.Similar topics