ᐅ New Construction Shell Phase Decision: Hire a Contractor or an Architect?
Created on: 24 Aug 2018 03:10
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Infosauger
Hello,
I am planning to build a single- or two-family house and have an idea of how I might proceed. I would like to hear or read your opinions, as this approach may not be fully developed and might lack many details (e.g., requirements and predefined materials). I would appreciate some support.
Currently, there is a fully serviced plot of land available. I want to build a standard house on it—so no special components and no exceptional thermal insulation, just a maximum energy standard of KfW 70-90. It should be two stories with a full basement (usable cellar) and a gable roof pitched at about 35-45 degrees, possibly with a knee wall depending on the price, since the attic might be converted later. I am looking for a shell construction including roof and basement, without plastering or screeding work. Windows, sanitary installations, heating, and electrical systems would be tendered separately. The house has a footprint of about 125-130 sqm (1345-1400 sq ft) per floor.
What specifications should be made? Building materials? U-value? I was thinking of sending various shell construction companies self-prepared dimensioned floor plans, area calculations, and a volume calculation. Question: What information is needed for a preliminary quote? If the price is acceptable, is it possible to use a structural engineer or architect through the builder?
At the same time, I would also submit my planning to architects or present it in a free initial consultation. What else should I consider or possibly mention when requesting a quote?
PS: Sorry for the spelling mistakes. I wrote this text on an old iPad.
I am planning to build a single- or two-family house and have an idea of how I might proceed. I would like to hear or read your opinions, as this approach may not be fully developed and might lack many details (e.g., requirements and predefined materials). I would appreciate some support.
Currently, there is a fully serviced plot of land available. I want to build a standard house on it—so no special components and no exceptional thermal insulation, just a maximum energy standard of KfW 70-90. It should be two stories with a full basement (usable cellar) and a gable roof pitched at about 35-45 degrees, possibly with a knee wall depending on the price, since the attic might be converted later. I am looking for a shell construction including roof and basement, without plastering or screeding work. Windows, sanitary installations, heating, and electrical systems would be tendered separately. The house has a footprint of about 125-130 sqm (1345-1400 sq ft) per floor.
What specifications should be made? Building materials? U-value? I was thinking of sending various shell construction companies self-prepared dimensioned floor plans, area calculations, and a volume calculation. Question: What information is needed for a preliminary quote? If the price is acceptable, is it possible to use a structural engineer or architect through the builder?
At the same time, I would also submit my planning to architects or present it in a free initial consultation. What else should I consider or possibly mention when requesting a quote?
PS: Sorry for the spelling mistakes. I wrote this text on an old iPad.
Preliminary discussions take place.
The problem I see is this: if someone already chooses the wrong words in thoughtful posts on the forum, how will that be handled later by the experts, who are being somewhat mocked here. At least, that’s how it comes across, and that is not a good basis for negotiation—to treat good contractors condescendingly as if they needed it or were of little value.
The problem I see is this: if someone already chooses the wrong words in thoughtful posts on the forum, how will that be handled later by the experts, who are being somewhat mocked here. At least, that’s how it comes across, and that is not a good basis for negotiation—to treat good contractors condescendingly as if they needed it or were of little value.
Infosauger schrieb:
Especially since a construction project like this is often one of the most expensive and important undertakings in a person’s future life. That’s exactly why many people here (myself included) consider the idea of preparing the tender documents and related paperwork for all trades entirely as a DIY task, without an architect, to be complete suicide. Even if you just piece together ready-made tender texts, it will completely backfire.
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Infosauger25 Aug 2018 12:38MayrCh schrieb:
That’s exactly why many people here (including myself) find the idea of having the tender documents and related paperwork for the trades fully done as a DIY project, without an architect, completely reckless. Even if you just put together ready-made tender texts, it usually ends badly. This doesn’t quite fit here. I specifically wrote that the sketch will be adjusted later after awarding the contract by a construction company with its team—that is, architect and structural engineer—or alternatively by an architect, and of course the construction details will be refined then. It’s clear to me that the sketch can’t serve as a final house plan. As I said, comparing offers is very important to me personally. Naturally, the comparison also includes qualitative criteria, just to make that clear. The question—and probably the issue—is what I can compare free of charge. As far as I can tell from many posts, the information only becomes available after signing the contract. That’s the cat in the bag. Let’s see if that’s really the case.
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chand198625 Aug 2018 14:15Not after the contract is signed. But the good ones charge a fee.
If you have a plot of land, a zoning plan, and a program (for example, a two-family house, a certain number of square meters, 3.5 rooms + 4.5 rooms), give this to two architects and ask them for proposals. It costs something but will help you move forward, and this way you can compare effectively.
If you have a plot of land, a zoning plan, and a program (for example, a two-family house, a certain number of square meters, 3.5 rooms + 4.5 rooms), give this to two architects and ask them for proposals. It costs something but will help you move forward, and this way you can compare effectively.
So, first let's calibrate the scale: your construction project is small and (unless you have a triangular plot) standard. To use a popular car comparison, it’s a plain white Polo rather than a fully loaded Q7, for which the dealer naturally takes more time.
Preliminary discussions with credit toward a contract should be no problem, but “free” really only covers a coffee and just enough time to finish it. Having already glanced at the development plan is a qualified service. That doesn’t come for free— you get a polite “Hello, Mr. Client, what can we do for you, do we get along, and what does your bank say about your dreams?”
Details like what type of stone infill to use are “features” that show a test-magazine junkie, but they are not relevant basics for a planning meeting. If the architect sees, after approval, that builder Schmidt is available and prefers Ytong blocks, you don’t wait four months for builder Meier who knows more about Poroton. With all due respect, those are trivial criteria for clueless people who have read too many comparison tables. Practitioners don’t get bogged down with that kind of stuff in their daily work.
If your wife says, “My husband snores so loudly, we need separate bedrooms,” that is a point where the architect will design your otherwise standard house differently. Or if the development plan says the knee wall height is limited to 87cm (34 inches).
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Infosauger schrieb:The problem is people— and your statements here don’t distance you from them— who take it for granted to casually test professionals. No freelancer can support their family by leisurely sipping cognac with people who collect preliminary talks like travel brochures.
It really surprises me that no one here considers preliminary discussions as a given.
Preliminary discussions with credit toward a contract should be no problem, but “free” really only covers a coffee and just enough time to finish it. Having already glanced at the development plan is a qualified service. That doesn’t come for free— you get a polite “Hello, Mr. Client, what can we do for you, do we get along, and what does your bank say about your dreams?”
Details like what type of stone infill to use are “features” that show a test-magazine junkie, but they are not relevant basics for a planning meeting. If the architect sees, after approval, that builder Schmidt is available and prefers Ytong blocks, you don’t wait four months for builder Meier who knows more about Poroton. With all due respect, those are trivial criteria for clueless people who have read too many comparison tables. Practitioners don’t get bogged down with that kind of stuff in their daily work.
If your wife says, “My husband snores so loudly, we need separate bedrooms,” that is a point where the architect will design your otherwise standard house differently. Or if the development plan says the knee wall height is limited to 87cm (34 inches).
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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Infosauger25 Aug 2018 23:10I can understand that it requires effort. Let’s see how people will respond when I call and inquire. From my perspective, I have an ideal plot of land with an exact south-facing orientation. It is single-level and relatively rectangular, somewhat longer than wide. There is enough space for neighboring developments even if I plan with a width of 20 sqm (215 sq ft). My own building plan is well below the restrictions set by the development plan, especially since the plot is quite large.
In addition, I don’t need an architect’s help to interpret the zoning plan here. Moreover, I have concrete ideas regarding the living area and the design of the living space—in about 30 hours, I created a floor plan sketch with area measurements after reviewing numerous floor plans of houses of similar size and carefully considering my own requirements and those of the individual trades involved. There are also buffers for individual trades in case they turn out to be larger than expected or if the load-bearing wall becomes wider, and there is also the possibility of expanding the buildable area.
This naturally raises the question for me where the value of an architect lies in direct comparison to the construction company and its team when I can provide this sketch along with area and height calculations (the construction company can also work out the later details with their architects). This is quite different compared to a client who has no concrete ideas yet and possibly a difficult plot due to its location or building restrictions, where the high expertise of an architect is certainly often needed. Furthermore, my ideas regarding the individual trades are quite precise.
At this point, no one can really say exactly what the outcome will be or what I should prepare for the first meeting or inquiry. Nevertheless, the feedback here has helped me make progress and motivated me to research more in other places online and here in the forum. Thank you for that.
In addition, I don’t need an architect’s help to interpret the zoning plan here. Moreover, I have concrete ideas regarding the living area and the design of the living space—in about 30 hours, I created a floor plan sketch with area measurements after reviewing numerous floor plans of houses of similar size and carefully considering my own requirements and those of the individual trades involved. There are also buffers for individual trades in case they turn out to be larger than expected or if the load-bearing wall becomes wider, and there is also the possibility of expanding the buildable area.
This naturally raises the question for me where the value of an architect lies in direct comparison to the construction company and its team when I can provide this sketch along with area and height calculations (the construction company can also work out the later details with their architects). This is quite different compared to a client who has no concrete ideas yet and possibly a difficult plot due to its location or building restrictions, where the high expertise of an architect is certainly often needed. Furthermore, my ideas regarding the individual trades are quite precise.
At this point, no one can really say exactly what the outcome will be or what I should prepare for the first meeting or inquiry. Nevertheless, the feedback here has helped me make progress and motivated me to research more in other places online and here in the forum. Thank you for that.
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