ᐅ Is it legal to remove the meter or rent the meter during a period of vacancy? No!
Created on: 19 Apr 2015 17:28
G
Georg2
Hello,
For several years now, it has become common for energy suppliers to want to remove meters in multi-family buildings, citing either removal or meter fees as justification. On the internet, you can find a lot of amateurish nonsense about this, often claiming that since the meter belongs to them, they are also entitled to the money. They call it maintenance costs for the system but forget that except for the meter and the small main panel for the 3 phases, they own nothing else—and all of it is cheaper equipment already paid for with the first 6 months’ fees in the life of a house.
Since very few people understand the law and regulations, and even courts or lawyers often provide huge nonsense, it is important to clarify what the reality is. It was also said that removing and reinstalling a meter costs a lot of money, about 50€ (roughly 55 USD) each, and that you might lose existing legal protections in the process. Frequent meter rewiring is also bad for the meter wiring itself.
You should not assume that those who live off money are so generous that they spend their whole day giving away gifts, because far too many have only become rich through exploitation. Since Germany has some of the highest electricity prices—elsewhere it’s about 5-15 cents (USD) per kWh—this profiteering is well proven. Now, the problem lies with the landlord, who especially during vacancies would have to pay for the meters. With 7 meters, that can easily be 1000€ (around 1100 USD) per year, just for them sitting there unused. This cannot be a meter rental fee, firstly because the correct term is “basic fee” and not “meter fee” (which is just colloquial) and secondly because the energy companies pay about 15€ (about 16.5 USD) for a meter, so calling this a yearly rental fee is unreasonable since you could buy 8 new meters per year for that price.
It is also important to understand that electricity contracts are only concluded with the supplier or basic supplier, while the street grid including the meter belongs to the grid operator, with whom you cannot make a contract involving fees. According to §36 of the German Energy Industry Act (EnWG), the grid operator is obligated to supply electricity to every household/customer, even if they do not like the customer personally. They must provide a functioning grid to the customer free of charge, logically with a meter, because without a meter no electricity can be drawn. This is called the grid connection usage relationship, which most people don’t even know about.
From this, it follows that a meter cannot have any “meter fee” cost because it belongs free of charge to the mandatory connection of the grid operator, and the costs fall under the grid operator’s business risk. The basic supplier also has no right to declare the meters as their property since they don’t own them.
Now comes the basic supplier (or a free supplier), who buys electricity from the grid operator and then resells it to the customer. Only with this supplier can you make a fee contract. With the basic supplier, this is the basic supply contract, which must be concluded according to §2 and can be terminated within 2 weeks under §20 of the Electricity Basic Supply Ordinance. So, with a contract, there is a basic fee; without a contract, there is no fee because the basis for it is missing. Tenants can enter into the contract with the supplier, but so can the property owner, and either can cancel it. This creates a special situation. The grid operator must provide electricity to the building even if no one currently wants it; the basic supplier cannot collect money because the basic supply contract was properly canceled. If meters were then removed, it would be a violation of §36 EnWG. As a homeowner, you normally face this situation during vacancy periods that last months or years.
Now these two companies dare to target the customer’s money and threaten meter removal if the customer does not pay fees they are not obliged to pay when reading the law. But some people are naive enough to pay anyway or give up their meters—falling into the trap.
From our perspective, this is illegal and urgently needs to be clarified because many have allowed their meters to be removed with all unforeseen consequences or have even been sued, while ignorant or biased judges offer no remedy. The question is how to proceed. We suspect that a declaratory action is the right step to put an end to this arbitrariness. It can be taken up to the Federal Court of Justice to achieve a fundamental ruling.
The benefit of all this is that if you are sued, you immediately have an effective counterargument ready, since there is usually very little time to research during a lawsuit.
For several years now, it has become common for energy suppliers to want to remove meters in multi-family buildings, citing either removal or meter fees as justification. On the internet, you can find a lot of amateurish nonsense about this, often claiming that since the meter belongs to them, they are also entitled to the money. They call it maintenance costs for the system but forget that except for the meter and the small main panel for the 3 phases, they own nothing else—and all of it is cheaper equipment already paid for with the first 6 months’ fees in the life of a house.
Since very few people understand the law and regulations, and even courts or lawyers often provide huge nonsense, it is important to clarify what the reality is. It was also said that removing and reinstalling a meter costs a lot of money, about 50€ (roughly 55 USD) each, and that you might lose existing legal protections in the process. Frequent meter rewiring is also bad for the meter wiring itself.
You should not assume that those who live off money are so generous that they spend their whole day giving away gifts, because far too many have only become rich through exploitation. Since Germany has some of the highest electricity prices—elsewhere it’s about 5-15 cents (USD) per kWh—this profiteering is well proven. Now, the problem lies with the landlord, who especially during vacancies would have to pay for the meters. With 7 meters, that can easily be 1000€ (around 1100 USD) per year, just for them sitting there unused. This cannot be a meter rental fee, firstly because the correct term is “basic fee” and not “meter fee” (which is just colloquial) and secondly because the energy companies pay about 15€ (about 16.5 USD) for a meter, so calling this a yearly rental fee is unreasonable since you could buy 8 new meters per year for that price.
It is also important to understand that electricity contracts are only concluded with the supplier or basic supplier, while the street grid including the meter belongs to the grid operator, with whom you cannot make a contract involving fees. According to §36 of the German Energy Industry Act (EnWG), the grid operator is obligated to supply electricity to every household/customer, even if they do not like the customer personally. They must provide a functioning grid to the customer free of charge, logically with a meter, because without a meter no electricity can be drawn. This is called the grid connection usage relationship, which most people don’t even know about.
From this, it follows that a meter cannot have any “meter fee” cost because it belongs free of charge to the mandatory connection of the grid operator, and the costs fall under the grid operator’s business risk. The basic supplier also has no right to declare the meters as their property since they don’t own them.
Now comes the basic supplier (or a free supplier), who buys electricity from the grid operator and then resells it to the customer. Only with this supplier can you make a fee contract. With the basic supplier, this is the basic supply contract, which must be concluded according to §2 and can be terminated within 2 weeks under §20 of the Electricity Basic Supply Ordinance. So, with a contract, there is a basic fee; without a contract, there is no fee because the basis for it is missing. Tenants can enter into the contract with the supplier, but so can the property owner, and either can cancel it. This creates a special situation. The grid operator must provide electricity to the building even if no one currently wants it; the basic supplier cannot collect money because the basic supply contract was properly canceled. If meters were then removed, it would be a violation of §36 EnWG. As a homeowner, you normally face this situation during vacancy periods that last months or years.
Now these two companies dare to target the customer’s money and threaten meter removal if the customer does not pay fees they are not obliged to pay when reading the law. But some people are naive enough to pay anyway or give up their meters—falling into the trap.
From our perspective, this is illegal and urgently needs to be clarified because many have allowed their meters to be removed with all unforeseen consequences or have even been sued, while ignorant or biased judges offer no remedy. The question is how to proceed. We suspect that a declaratory action is the right step to put an end to this arbitrariness. It can be taken up to the Federal Court of Justice to achieve a fundamental ruling.
The benefit of all this is that if you are sued, you immediately have an effective counterargument ready, since there is usually very little time to research during a lawsuit.
Georg2 schrieb:
Well, the problem lies with the landlord, who has to pay for his meters even when the property is vacant. With 7 meters, that can quickly add up to 1,000 euros per year just for them sitting there. The fact that this cannot be considered a meter rental fee is proven by the term “basic fee” rather than “meter fee” (the latter is just colloquial), and also because energy companies only charge about 15 euros per meter. You can’t call it rent when you could buy 8 new meters per year for the same amount. Grid expansion and maintenance also cost money. Thanks to all the photovoltaic system operators and self-consumption users, the basic fees will even increase in the future. Then you pay roughly a 1,200-euro banknote annually for your 100 kWh — so whether the rooftop photovoltaic system is really worth it with the inflated basic fee prices, I don’t know.
At least the basic fees are going up, according to local energy providers — because the money has to come from somewhere.
P.S. But why not choose a tariff with a 6-euro basic fee per meter? That would only be about half the cost at the end of the year: just under 500 euros.
N
Nostradamus12 Feb 2018 16:17I can understand the frustration quite well. I have had a similar experience. It can be quite complicated for an end consumer to finally cancel their additional heating electricity connection. My electricity connection and the contract date back to a time when there was no separate grid operator, and back then it was common practice for the electricity provider to cover all costs related to the meter.
Since I no longer require heating electricity, I officially terminated the contract with my basic supplier, mentioning that I no longer need heating electricity and offered that the meter could be removed and collected from my property at any time. I thought that would settle everything.
Six months after the cancellation, I received a letter from the basic supplier stating that I apparently have had a contract with them for half a year. Only after several inquiries did it become clear that the grid operator sends a signal to the basic supplier because of the existing meter, which automatically creates a contract with the basic supplier. This behavior seems quite odd to me, especially since the basic supplier has been cooperative.
The problem remains with the grid operator. They now say that I have to have the meter removed at my own expense and find an electrician myself.
My specific questions:
Of course, I do not want the grid operator to send that signal again. Do I actually need to have the meter removed for this, or are there other technical options that would not result in a charge to me?
Is it even permissible in old contracts to charge the end consumer for the removal of the meter?
In my opinion, a final cancellation should be sufficient if the end consumer makes the meter available for removal; everything else should then be at the expense of the owner of the meter.
Any tips on the best way to proceed and argue in this situation?
Anyone switching from heating electricity to gas might face this problem.
Since I no longer require heating electricity, I officially terminated the contract with my basic supplier, mentioning that I no longer need heating electricity and offered that the meter could be removed and collected from my property at any time. I thought that would settle everything.
Six months after the cancellation, I received a letter from the basic supplier stating that I apparently have had a contract with them for half a year. Only after several inquiries did it become clear that the grid operator sends a signal to the basic supplier because of the existing meter, which automatically creates a contract with the basic supplier. This behavior seems quite odd to me, especially since the basic supplier has been cooperative.
The problem remains with the grid operator. They now say that I have to have the meter removed at my own expense and find an electrician myself.
My specific questions:
Of course, I do not want the grid operator to send that signal again. Do I actually need to have the meter removed for this, or are there other technical options that would not result in a charge to me?
Is it even permissible in old contracts to charge the end consumer for the removal of the meter?
In my opinion, a final cancellation should be sufficient if the end consumer makes the meter available for removal; everything else should then be at the expense of the owner of the meter.
Any tips on the best way to proceed and argue in this situation?
Anyone switching from heating electricity to gas might face this problem.
T
toxicmolotof12 Feb 2018 17:38You probably realize yourself that you are a grave robber.
When we had our secondary meter installed, it was absolutely no problem at all.
When we had our secondary meter installed, it was absolutely no problem at all.
N
Nostradamus12 Feb 2018 18:02toxicmolotow schrieb:
You probably know yourself that you’re a grave robber.
When we had our secondary meter removed, it was absolutely no problem.N
Nostradamus12 Feb 2018 18:04toxicmolotow schrieb:
You probably already know that you are a scavenger.
When we had our secondary meter removed, it was not a problem at all. This insulting comment is rather unhelpful..... good for you if you had no problems. Did you pay for the removal?
Nostradamus schrieb:
Any tips on the best way to proceed and argue here? Section 9 of the Low Voltage Connection Ordinance (NAV) governs this. Also, the contracts you signed back then as the connection applicant.
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