Hello everyone,
we are still at the early stage of our house planning, and I’m trying to figure out the right heating system for us. Here are a few key points...
- Building style: townhouse with integrated double garage
- Living area: 160 m² (1,722 ft²)
- Occupants: currently 3, will increase to 4
- Both working full-time
- No basement
- Targeting KFW 55 standard
- Exterior walls made of Ytong
- Probably controlled ventilation with heat recovery (personally, not a must-have for me)
- Pellet stove (likely hydronic)
- Probably underfloor heating
- Probably solar thermal for hot water
- No gas connection available/possible
- Large plot, with 3.00–3.50 m (10–11.5 ft) hard clay soil (no drilling progress)
- No shading on the roof, good southern exposure
We definitely want a pellet stove for the living-kitchen-hall-dining area (approx. 55 m² / 592 ft²), mainly for the ambiance, and I’m considering heating the entire house with it (hydronic). Of course, storage and supply of wood pellets are two factors that need to be considered. Ideally, in summer the hot water demand should be covered by a solar thermal system. However, I don’t want to rely entirely on a “living room” stove as the central heating. A heat pump system would probably not be cost-effective if the pellet stove really works out.
Is it economically feasible to provide electric backup heating via the controlled ventilation system or thermal storage / layering tanks in case the pellet stove fails? Do you have any other ideas?
I really love underfloor heating, but since we are not home during the day, I’m not a fan of heating continuously, especially not with a pellet stove. Underfloor heating is well known to be slow to react. We also don’t want visible radiators. Would it be sufficient to charge a buffer tank of about 800 liters (210 gallons) once in the evening to last until the next evening?
Has anyone had experience with floor convector heating units?
Apparently they exist with and without fans. With fans, I guess the controlled ventilation system won’t work together, but without fans the room heating probably takes much longer, right?
How quickly can a controlled ventilation system distribute the heat from a stove/fireplace throughout the house via heat recovery? Probably too slowly, right?
Okay, I guess I’ve asked enough questions for now ops:
I would really appreciate your help and experiences.
Thank you in advance.
Best regards
Judyyy
we are still at the early stage of our house planning, and I’m trying to figure out the right heating system for us. Here are a few key points...
- Building style: townhouse with integrated double garage
- Living area: 160 m² (1,722 ft²)
- Occupants: currently 3, will increase to 4
- Both working full-time
- No basement
- Targeting KFW 55 standard
- Exterior walls made of Ytong
- Probably controlled ventilation with heat recovery (personally, not a must-have for me)
- Pellet stove (likely hydronic)
- Probably underfloor heating
- Probably solar thermal for hot water
- No gas connection available/possible
- Large plot, with 3.00–3.50 m (10–11.5 ft) hard clay soil (no drilling progress)
- No shading on the roof, good southern exposure
We definitely want a pellet stove for the living-kitchen-hall-dining area (approx. 55 m² / 592 ft²), mainly for the ambiance, and I’m considering heating the entire house with it (hydronic). Of course, storage and supply of wood pellets are two factors that need to be considered. Ideally, in summer the hot water demand should be covered by a solar thermal system. However, I don’t want to rely entirely on a “living room” stove as the central heating. A heat pump system would probably not be cost-effective if the pellet stove really works out.
Is it economically feasible to provide electric backup heating via the controlled ventilation system or thermal storage / layering tanks in case the pellet stove fails? Do you have any other ideas?
I really love underfloor heating, but since we are not home during the day, I’m not a fan of heating continuously, especially not with a pellet stove. Underfloor heating is well known to be slow to react. We also don’t want visible radiators. Would it be sufficient to charge a buffer tank of about 800 liters (210 gallons) once in the evening to last until the next evening?
Has anyone had experience with floor convector heating units?
Apparently they exist with and without fans. With fans, I guess the controlled ventilation system won’t work together, but without fans the room heating probably takes much longer, right?
How quickly can a controlled ventilation system distribute the heat from a stove/fireplace throughout the house via heat recovery? Probably too slowly, right?
Okay, I guess I’ve asked enough questions for now ops:
I would really appreciate your help and experiences.
Thank you in advance.
Best regards
Judyyy
There are houses built with very little thermal mass, which warm up quickly because the building components don’t store or absorb much heat. However, this is not common practice in Germany. If it’s just about a 2°C (3.6°F) difference, it might be possible... but then the effort is not worthwhile at all. Hot water costs between 7.5€ and 15€ per month — there’s not much more to save there. The cost for those 2°C was estimated by @Saruss at around 30 kWh, which corresponds to about 7.5€ in a winter month. For an average of 100€ per year, you drive this expensive and maintenance-intensive effort.
A heat pump naturally pairs very well with a photovoltaic system to use the generated electricity for self-consumption. To optimize this, the systems can be connected, but this involves additional technical effort and complexity. A simpler option would be to program the heat pump with lockout periods or specify exact times for heating—for example, charging the hot water tank at 12 noon, topping it up again before sunset, and repeating the cycle the next day.
Keep in mind that with a KfW 55 energy standard house featuring controlled ventilation with heat recovery and underfloor heating, you could turn off the heat generator for hours without noticing any difference (this means removing room thermostats for the underfloor heating from the plan). In this context, you should consider your stove mainly for aesthetics and ambiance. Economic efficiency no longer plays a significant role here.
Keep in mind that with a KfW 55 energy standard house featuring controlled ventilation with heat recovery and underfloor heating, you could turn off the heat generator for hours without noticing any difference (this means removing room thermostats for the underfloor heating from the plan). In this context, you should consider your stove mainly for aesthetics and ambiance. Economic efficiency no longer plays a significant role here.
B
Bieber08157 Nov 2016 14:27For now, mentally remove the pellet stove and describe openly what kind of atmosphere (type of warmth) you would like to have in the living area.
The standard solution seems to me to be: heat pump (either ground collector-water or air-water) with underfloor heating, optionally supplemented by photovoltaic panels.
The standard solution seems to me to be: heat pump (either ground collector-water or air-water) with underfloor heating, optionally supplemented by photovoltaic panels.
There are no stupid questions
You simply cannot argue about the sense or nonsense of certain things.
There are so many things in life that just don’t make sense, but you do them anyway.
That’s why the question remains... if we want to have a pellet stove, how can we best incorporate it or, better said... how can I justify it to my conscience?
You simply cannot argue about the sense or nonsense of certain things.
There are so many things in life that just don’t make sense, but you do them anyway.
That’s why the question remains... if we want to have a pellet stove, how can we best incorporate it or, better said... how can I justify it to my conscience?
Judyyy schrieb:
You simply can’t argue about the sense or nonsense of certain things.
There are so many things in life that just don’t make sense, but you do them anyway.
That’s why the only question is... if we want to have a pellet stove, how can we best integrate it, or rather... how can I justify it to my conscience? The general consensus here is that it doesn’t make sense to include the pellet stove in the heating system. Therefore, the only option is to avoid integration, or the first point you made, which I just quoted, applies.
To say it again, using a pellet stove to heat the house is pointless. These spot-specific, high heat outputs are nonsensical in a highly insulated new build. Neither warm water pockets nor other gimmicks can change that.
Build yourself a stove for the ambiance, and make sure its heating capacity is as low as possible.
First of all, many thanks for your numerous replies.
Well, it’s a pity that I can’t use the pellet stove effectively, but it’s not a big deal and certainly not a reason to avoid getting one.
Personally, I don’t need it to be that warm, but my wife only feels comfortable at 24°C (75°F) and up, and I just like the atmosphere. I don’t want to go into more detail here.
30 kWh with which heating system and what is the energy standard of the house? I have often read about huge electricity costs in winter due to supplementary heating with controlled mechanical ventilation or inefficient heat pumps. I would have liked to counteract that somewhat with the pellet stove.
Would it maybe help a little to install an exhaust from the controlled mechanical ventilation above the pellet stove?
That’s how I imagine it, too. Would a buffer tank for domestic hot water be necessary for that, or could it be omitted? The underfloor heating also serves as storage, after all.
Best regards
Judyyy
Well, it’s a pity that I can’t use the pellet stove effectively, but it’s not a big deal and certainly not a reason to avoid getting one.
Imagine leaving out the pellet stove and describe openly what kind of atmosphere (type of warmth) you want in the living space.
Personally, I don’t need it to be that warm, but my wife only feels comfortable at 24°C (75°F) and up, and I just like the atmosphere. I don’t want to go into more detail here.
The cost for the 2°C difference was once estimated by @@Saruss at 30 kWh, which equals about €7.50 in a winter month.
30 kWh with which heating system and what is the energy standard of the house? I have often read about huge electricity costs in winter due to supplementary heating with controlled mechanical ventilation or inefficient heat pumps. I would have liked to counteract that somewhat with the pellet stove.
Would it maybe help a little to install an exhaust from the controlled mechanical ventilation above the pellet stove?
The simple option would be to set blackout periods or specific heating times in the heat pump, for example, charging the hot water tank at noon, recharging once before sunset, and then repeating the next day. Keep in mind that in a KfW 55 standard house with controlled mechanical ventilation and heat recovery, as well as underfloor heating, you could turn off the heat generator for hours without even noticing it.
That’s how I imagine it, too. Would a buffer tank for domestic hot water be necessary for that, or could it be omitted? The underfloor heating also serves as storage, after all.
Best regards
Judyyy
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